I don't know if the suit has merit but I've been for a class-action all along. If nothing else, compel Woody, Tisch and Mara to explain how the dual ownership of the stadium went from "significant cost savings" to full blown, "We need more PSL money now than just about any other stadium in the country." Make them account for the money being spent, if nothing else, i.e., what is it being spent on, why is it so expensive, what part of this is being paid for by tax dollars (the state of NJ) and what part is being paid for by the fans, etc. If the fans are paying for the stadium, why don't they have stock in the stadium itself or ownership rights to more than just a seat 10 times a year? WTF are you selling, exactly, for these kinds of prices, besides a chance to buy tickets?
It's not the first stadium to sell PSLs and it probably isn't the first suit against them either. Probably no chance it gets out of the starting blocks.
Not sure if this is the correct place to post this, but has anyone seen this news story: "Jets, Giants, sued by fan over Arena PSL's" By Erik Larson March 18 (Bloomberg) -- The New York Giants and Jets were sued by a fan who claims the football teams are illegally forcing thousands of season-ticket holders to buy personal seat licenses to finance a new $1.6 billion stadium. The teams are violating competition law by requiring at least 45,000 season-ticket holders to make one-time payments of $1,000 to $25,000 for the permanent right to buy future season tickets, according to a proposed class-action, or group, lawsuit filed March 16 in federal court in Newark, New Jersey. The teams allegedly plan to confiscate the PSLs if fans stop buying season tickets after the National Football League arena opens in 2010. The Jets and Giants ?fixed the prices for PSLs and 2010 season tickets at artificial, supra-competitive prices that were established by defendants to maximize near-term revenue and profits,? Harold Oshinsky, a retiree who has held Giants season tickets for 30 years, said in the 76-page complaint. The football teams are four months ahead of schedule on the new arena next to the current stadium they share in East Rutherford, New Jersey. The PSLs were used as a last resort to raise money for the 82,500-seat stadium, Giants co-owner John Mara said in a statement last year. ?Given construction costs and NFL and lender requirements for paying down our debt, and after much thought and analysis, we decided this PSL program is necessary,? Mara said. Representatives from both teams said today they?re confident the PSLs are fully legal. ?We have complied with all applicable law in the formulation and execution of our sales plan for the new stadium,? Pat Hanlon, a Giants spokesman, said in an e-mail. ?Fully Compliant? Bruce Speight, a Jets spokesman, said in a phone interview that his team is ?fully compliant with all laws and regulations related to the sale of these licenses, and we expect that this matter will be resolved in our favor.? Oshinsky?s lawyer, Andrew Friedman, said the teams should not be allowed to force fans to accept ?onerous? PSL terms. He said the licenses unfairly require fans to buy season tickets regardless of the price through at least 2025 and can be taken away without reimbursement. ?We?re arguing the practice is, and should be, illegal,? Friedman, of Glancy Binkow & Goldberg LLP in New York, said today in a phone interview. ?If you buy a PSL and the team decided to jack up the ticket prices, you?d be helpless.? Oshinsky, who also has held Jets season tickets for about 25 years, seeks a court order forcing the teams to disclose projected season-ticket prices after 2010, and to tie price increases to the cost-of-living index for the New York metropolitan area. He also wants the teams to buy back at ?current fair-market value? PSLs from fans who are unwilling or unable to purchase season tickets. ?Only a Monopolist? Anything less is unfair to fans and violates state business laws, Oshinsky said in the complaint. ?They?re saying that in order to continue to purchases season tickets, you must buy this additional product they created, a PSL,? Friedman said. ?Only a monopolist could do that.? The lawsuit comes less than two weeks after the Jets asked some office and support employees to take two weeks of unpaid leave to save money. The Giants and Jets each borrowed $650 million for their share of the venue. Amenities at the new stadium will include areas for corporate sponsors, about 200 luxury suites, four video boards -- each about 100-by-30 feet -- and ?Coach?s Club? seats behind the team?s bench with access to a private bar and lounge. The case is Oshinsky v. New York Football Giants Inc., 2:09-cv-01186, U.S. District Court, District of New Jersey (Newark). To contact the reporter on this story: Erik Larson in New York at elarson4@bloomberg.net. Last Updated: March 18, 2009 16:42 EDT
Exactly what money did the state give them? The NFL gave them 300 million but I think they have to pay that back. I don't know of any money the state gave them.
I have heard that some teams, Tampa maybe, charge for PSL's, but give back a small percentage every year, and after 10 years give the whole thing back. It's kinda like a bond. that's not too bad. but here, it's just a straight ripoff. and $700/seat for coaches club??!! somebody's been smokin somethin'
i couldnt possibly agree with him more. whether or not his suit has any real merit the courts will decide but you would think the nfl did their homework. however i would love to see the things he has asked for. i would actually enjoy seeing them say whoa hang on wait one second you cant legally do this and the teams take it in the ass for being scumbags in the first place. then they can go and give it back to all the fans across the country that have been ass raped by this little psl thing the nfl has been doing for the past few years. give em hell!
The fans have been getting ass raped for years where have you been? Season ticket prices higher than hell,the JETS ramming pre-season tix down your throat,merchandise,parking fees,food and beverage at the stadium. The PSL fees was just icing on the cake.
it sure is. while they have been raising prices for quite some time i could live with what i had to pay for my mezz seats a few years ago. to think the mezz area went from what it was be it a ripoff or not to what it will be when the new stadium opens is almost unbelievable. and then the fact you are going to end up further away from the field than you used to be. thats not icing thats diabetes.
I wonder if there is any chance of this guy winning, and what does it mean if he does. Would sure change the dynamic of what is being sent to everyone now. If the Jets and Giants hadn't been greedy pigs, we would be having this conversation. Now, it's possible they don't sell all the seats, and we get blacked out in NY from even being able to watch the Jets on TV. sheesh!!
I don't think we'll ever see a blackout because there's a difference between selling all the seats (the PSLs) and selling all the tickets to each game. If all the tickets to a game are sold, there's no blackout. So, if the Jets don't sell all their PSLs by September, 2010 (a distinct possibility), they're going to have to put the tickets to the games up for sale at the box office, either on an individual game-by-game basis or as a ticket package for the season. Current ticketholders and Waitlist people who were shut out of the PSLs (and therefore unable to get tickets) will jump at the chance to buy just the tickets without the attached PSLs, even if it for one season only. So that's always an out for the Jets. If they have 2,000 seats left that are in the PSL zones and no one has stepped up to the PSLs, they will undoubtedly still try to sell the tickets to the games as a one-time thing, until such time as they can get some suckers to buy the remaining PSLs for the 2011 season. There's one born every minute, so I'm sure it'll eventually get done.
Sorry with the cost per seat ONLY that they asking for it is surely within the realm of possibility that a blackout may occur. Now if you say that Woody may order a fire sale on the price per seat then yes no blackout will occur. However at $400.00 per seat I can forsee many, many unsold seats
I have heard that the Giants are now 18,000 people deep into their waitlist. I know of two folks who were on the waiting list who were able to buy sets of $5k PSLs. I assume demand for Jets tickets is lower than demand for Giants tickets (Giants have had the longer waiting list). So regardless of what the Jets salespeople say, I have a feeling that pretty much anyone who wants to drop $5k on a PSL, whether or not they're season ticketholders now or on the list or whatever, can hop on now and be offered them shortly. This economy is WAY worse than Woody or anyone else saw coming. This is a BRUTAL time to be selling PSLs, and it looks like the Giants are having a really hard time moving even the $5k ones (they couldn't get them sold with their current ticketholder base, and are now almost 20k deep into their waiting list). Lastly, another data point - a cousin of mine got Jets season tickets last year for the first time after being on the waiting list since 97 or 98. He was contacted by the Jets last week. So that's about where the Jets are in terms of notifying folks of options. They told him not to hold his breath for $5k PSLs and that they'd be gone by the time they got to him, but based on what the Giants are seeing, I'm pretty sure he'll be fine waiting for $5ks if he wants them.
Thanks for the update... this is good to know. Sounds like even the Giants are having a tough time moving the PSLs. It sounds like the Jets are already up to the last of the current season ticketholders and will soon be into the Waitlist poeple. If they don't sell all the Club Seats after that, then what? You've basically already gone through and exhausted your entire prospect list - anyone and everyone who is a Jets fan and who is willing to buy Jets tickets. There are no other prospects after that, unless you want to do cold calls... "Hello, I know you're not interested in football, but would you like to fork over $5K for a PSL and $400 per game?" Laughable. I can't wait for my "rep" to call me back after they've exhausted their prospect list and now they're going for Round Two. Should be an interesting conversation.
Yes, I'm thinking the same thing. They'd have to lower the ticket prices to move them. But the alternative is even worse: (a) They get no revenue whatsover from the empty seats and (b) the game gets blacked out and the entire Jets fan base goes completely berserk.
IF that fire sale ever occurred I wonder how the tix holder who already paid the higher prices would react. In my opinion that would place Woody between a rock & hard place
I've thought about this a little, and I wonder if they'd give back any cash to people who've paid the higher prices already. I know that sounds even more crazy than reducing the prices in the first place, but look where we're at now. I'm still waiting for my call (I deferred tickets last year, so I'm somewhere near the top of the wait list). Since my cousin who bought tickets for the first time last year was called last week, I'm hoping for a call within the next week or two. We'll see. I'll definitely update this group when I'm notified.
