getting very depressed

It's hard to compare the JETS and the Pats in terms of "home grown"

The 14 Pats were all home grown by one Head Coach. The JETS are going into their 3rd HC since Belechick took over with the Pats. We'll ALWAYS be behind that curve.

At this point we just brought in two Home Grown guys in Scott and Leonard. None of our Defense can be considered home grown any longer.

 

It's all about mixing and matching the right bunch of players and systems for the next coming season, that's it. It isn't baseball or hockey, there isn't any "home grown" formula or system from one team to another. Players and coordinators come and go every year, even on good teams--especially on good teams.

 

Yes. These things will always be in flux. The more consistently good teams tend to have home grown talent, so I can understand BradwaySux's point there; but it's not as if there should be some percentage that designates a team's success.

Right now, we have a mix of both. The talent is there, and in a year or two, the talent will really be there. If Rex is as good as billed, then we're in good shape.

 

Maybe the fact that the Jets can't seem to home grow talent is why we are working on our 3rd HC since Belichik took over? Our FO's have always been enamored of quick fixes, moving up in the draft, signing JAG free agents, basically doing everything in a manner guaranteed to keep the Jet's talent average at best and their depth poor. Going out and getting one or two guys every other draft who can play just pales in comparison to the Patriot's ability to pick up an impact player almost every season and also stockpile future picks to give them maneuverability and depth.

Even when the Jets guess right on somebody as they did with Darrelle Revis, they pay a long-term price in terms of depth and overall talent. When they guess wrong as they did with Dewayne Robertson it just cripples the franchise. Organizationally the Jets spend their picks in really stupid ways also unless there is an enormous hole confronting them that they have to try to fill. Trading up to draft a wide receiver in the first round,as the Jets did with Santana Moss, is just stupid. Trading up to draft a defensive back is just as stupid. Those are the kind of moves that weak FO's make all the time. Trading picks for veteran players who are late-prime is also stupid. It's almost defensible when you pick up a guy like Kris Jenkins cheap, but it's stupid to treat your draft picks as a way to go out and get people that you'd be able to sign as cuts if you just waited until June 1st or the end of training camp.

 

what makes a franchise successful is an unwavering philosophy, not one that changes with each regime change.

the next step is finding QB and HC continuity. 9/10 having those two in place establishes the leaders on the team. the leadership cannot be stressed enough. That is their job, to lead and to win. Their OL needs to protect the QB, but that's the OLs job, if they aren't doing that then they aren't doing their job.

the defensive gameplan needs to be as strong or stronger than the players, meaning that anyone on the depth chart can be plugged in and be effective.

Dominating the LOS is very important. If a team dominates up front, the job gets progressively easier to do the further away you get from the trenches.

Skill position players need to be effective and one star on either side of the ball is needed to push a team into the elite category.

This is how a team goes to the playoffs every year.

The Jets fail miserably in the unwavering philosophy and HC/QB continuity categories. Therefore the rest cannot be as effective.

there can be hope to have a winning season this year, but this organization does need to do things better. They have done them the best over the last 10 years when the entire history is added to the equation. But to win a ring, they need to follow this gameplan.

 

Today's world has changed the "homegrown" situations drastically. And that trend will continue, so I'm not sure how relevant "homegrown" is to the overall success of a team. Look at baseball... movement all over the place with very little relevance (in terms of success) as to who on the team is "homegrown" or not.

 

This is the Pats first draft under BB in 2000.

2 46 Adrian Klemm Offensive tackle Hawaii
3 76 J. R. Redmond Running back Arizona State
4 127 Greg Robinson-Randall Offensive tackle Michigan State
5 141 Dave Stachelski Tight end Boise State
5[4] 161 Jeff Marriott Defensive tackle Missouri
6 187 Antwan Harris Safety Virginia
6 199 Tom Brady Quarterback Michigan
6 201 David Nugent Defensive end Purdue
7 226 Casey Tisdale Linebacker New Mexico
7 239 Patrick Pass Fullback Georgia

Ty Law, Terri Glen, Teddi Bruschi, Damian Woody, Kevin Faulk, Troy Brown, Ben Coats, Willie McGinest, Lawyer Malloy were all their before the SB brain trust started drafting all of those SB teams.

This is BB second draft during the SB off season.

1 6 Richard Seymour Defensive tackle Georgia
2[1] 48 Matt Light Offensive tackle Purdue
3[2] 86 Brock Williams Cornerback Notre Dame
4[3] 96 Kenyatta Jones Offensive tackle South Florida
4[2] 119 Jabari Holloway Tight end Notre Dame
5 163 Hakim Akbar Safety Washington
6[4] 180 Arther Love Tight end South Carolina State
6 200 Leonard Myers Cornerback Miami (FL)
7[5] 216 Owen Pochman Kicker BYU
7 239 T. J. Turner Linebacker Michigan State

This is their third draft
1[2] 21 Daniel Graham Tight end Colorado
2 65 Deion Branch Wide receiver Louisville
4[3] 117 Rohan Davey Quarterback LSU
4[4] 126 Jarvis Green Defensive end LSU
7[5] 237 Antwoine Womack Running back Virginia
7 253 David Givens Wide receiver Notre Dame

This is their 4th draft which is where our GM is today.

1[2] 13 Ty Warren Defensive tackle Texas A&M
2[3] 36 Eugene Wilson Cornerback Illinois
2[4] 45 Bethel Johnson Wide receiver Texas A&M
4[3] 117 Dan Klecko Defensive tackle Temple
4[5] 120 Asante Samuel Cornerback Central Florida
5[6] 164 Dan Koppen Center Boston College
6[6] 201 Kliff Kingsbury Quarterback Texas Tech
7 234 Spencer Nead Tight end BYU
7[7] 239 Tully Banta-Cain Linebacker California
7[6] 243 Ethan Kelley Defensive tackle Baylor


I really don't see where our current GM has done such a bad job realative to NE. The big difference is BB inherited better players from Parcells and Carrol than our GM inherited from Bradway. The other huge difference is Tom Brady. Now if NE knew what Tom Brady was it's hard to see them taking guys like Adrain Klemm or Dave Stachelski ahead of him. They got lucky with Brady and even with that they didn't really draft a busshel full of starters until their 4th draft exactly where Tannenbaum is today.

 

I'd almost agree with you, if I didn't know you were for picking Sanchez at 17 - "Organizationally the Jets spend their picks in really stupid ways also unless there is an enormous hole confronting them"

So your problem is multi-fold. First the Pats must do something better in scouting and picking? (Forget that they've had the luxury of picking at the bottom of the first round every year) And THEN we haven't had consistency in coaching training those guys.

So what happens if Rex is able to turn Gholsten into a stud? You have to blame the bad coaching and praise the scouting?

 

Then why are the best teams in football favoring home grown talent over free agents? Why haven't the Washington Redskins taken all that free agent talent over the years and done something spectacular with it? Why do the Indianapolis Colts and the Pittsburgh Steelers and the New England Patriots all win every year with heavy doses of home grown talent compared to free agents? Why does Philadelphia remain a perpetual contender in the NFC East and Baltimore in the AFC North?

Why did San Diego rise in the the last five years to become a major contender while the Jets languished in the middle ranks?

The answer is that all of these teams have made major commitments to acquiring good players in the cheapest way possible: through the draft. The draft is the only place where you have a private market for talent available to you and nobody can compete with you for the players you single out as worth developing. All of the really good teams in the NFL right now have developed a large part of their talent via their own draft picks.

Fifteen of the Giants starters have never played a regular season down for another NFL franchise. FIFTEEN! That's fifty percent more than the Jets. It's not hard to see why they rose and we didn't. They had a plan that progresses from year to year upwards. We have a plan that goes sideways and off into the ditch every other year or so.

 

Obviously drafting better players over a period of years is going to make you a better team. My point is, once guys have been in the league a few years, it doesn't always matter if they came up with your team or not because coordinators come and go, just as players do. Back when you could keep more continuity it mattered more, not so much now. Look at the Jets last year, they brought in guys from all over to fit their system, went from 4-12 to 9-7 and were on the way to being better than that. Now we have another system, so the "home grown" guys are going to be as new to it as the guys we just sigend.

 

To answer your question, one of the main reasons why is because we haven't had a consistently good staff to develop the players, or a great QB like those teams. Those two things have allowed those teams to excel.

Herm, Mangini, and Chad is different than Cowher and Big Ben, than Belichick and Brady, than Dungy and Peyton.

If Ryan and his staff turn out to be along those lines, and we find our gem at QB, then you'll see the consistency which will in turn allow us to consistently build through the draft.

 

Pittsburgh, NE, Philadelphia, The Giants, SD and the Colts all have built their teams around the QB position. In the case of NE they were built around Bledsoe and than Brady.

SD not only got their QB but were able to swap out and have clearly built one of the most talented teams in football only to go nowhere. What have the Chargers done exactly?

With the exception of Brady those teams sucked in years when franchise QB's were available. We sucked when a franchise WR was available.

Early round mistakes cost teams a fortune. That's why the Giants were able to make the move for Manning and still beat SD to the SB even though they lost a good portion of their draft to the Chargers. They were able to fill in with sure thing FA's like Burress that seperated them from teams like the Chargers.

Put any one of those franchise QB's on our team and we are a SB competitor right now.

 

you bitch and moan and then you want this to happen.

So when he messed everything up you'd complain more about how he sunk the franchise further. If you want them to win don't want what is going to make them lose. That makes you at fault as well, so enjoy your mediocrity.

 

What is an OP?

 

You really are absolutely clueless. We are going to have a 5 game slide even though we improved our run defense (Scott) and pass defense (Sheppard and Leonhard). Got a better HC (granted this my opinion). And we haven't had the draft yet. Your posts are terrible, TERRIBLE.

 

Yes but you can't put one of those franchise QB's on the Jets if they won't take a franchise QB prospect in the first round. They haven't taken a legitimate topflight talent in the first round at QB since Richard Todd. That's 33 years and counting now.

You can make the safe pick every time and what you wind up with is safe QB's. If you want a star you either need to be picking #1 or you need to take some chances on people in the latter part of the round or early second at the latest. That's where the majority of the great QB's come from: the first round or the first few picks of the second.

Mark Sanchez has more talent than anybody the Jets have had available to draft since Drew Brees in 2001. To ignore the talent because you think he has an attitude problem or he came out early or any of that other stuff is insane. It reeks of passing on Dan Marino. It reeks of not making a simple trade up to get Brett Favre. It reeks of Jetness.

 

Optimus Prime.

 

To my understanding it means original poster, as in the lad or lass who created the thread. It's really dumb. Thread starter, or TS, would be better.

 

Original Poster