The Case to NOT draft Sanchez @ 17

I never once thought Clausen was terrible, but IMO, he's not going to be as good of player in the Pros, as Stafford and Sanchez.

 

Last time I checked Harrington was a top 3 pick and was a very good college player. He just wasn't accurate enough in the pro game and was on a shitty team. You can't say he was a head case or untalented like other busts. Good athletic ability, 6 2 1/2, plus arm, ability to buy time with his feet, good character guy, questionable accuracy at the combine, appeared to be a good fit for the west coast system. When he doesn't play well he reminds me of Harrington. How do you not see any similarities?

 

Last time I checked, Joey Harrington was drafted by a team on which he was set up to fail.

Harrington and Carr both had everything you look for in a franchise quarterback - their offensive lines were just horrible.

 

Well, that's the risky part. Flacco was thought to be drafted last year early in the 2nd round, but the Ravens moved up in the 1st to select him and their risk so far looks like it paid off. If history tells us anything, there's a HUGE RISK moving up to get a QB, which I agree with the rest of the folks who say we shouldn't move up to get Sanchez. But if he falls on our laps at 17, I wouldn't be upset. WR's are deep in this Draft which we could pick up in the 2nd round and RB's have transitioned and done fairly well at the NFL level.

My point I guess is I don't see picking at #17 has a huge gamble to take on a QB especially with a Draft so thin and one of them happens to fall on our laps. I'd be totally against moving up though.

Whatever we do, I just hope we don't draft Josh Freeman. That I would consider a very, very risky/bad gamble.

 

Your just being arguementative, just to try to sound like a know it all. We basically agree, I liked Harrington coming out of college and like Sanchez. I could see circumstances working against him and him not being successful because of it. Just like Harrington. You have to see the similairities. Carr is a different story, Carr reminded me of Kenny O'brien. California kid, low key, great arm doesn't like getting hit.

 

heres my case, hes a condom. yes a dickbag. he is overrated and will not end up being a great pro. please god let someone else spend the money on him. we dont need any dickbags on this team.

 

And you base this on what?

 

Carr stood up just fine for the record sack season his rookie year. He didn't throw a ton of picks and he didn't give up. By the time the 68 sack monstrosity in his fourth season was done he was basically finished.

The Texans put themselves and Carr into prime position to fail by not addressing the problems on the offensive line until things had gotten out of hand. What happened there is a strong argument for NOT taking the QB on the 1 pick your first season. Take the LT or better yet trade down and take two or three offensive linemen early and then go out and take the QB in year two with your likely repeat #1 pick. If you don't find him there you'll have the same low pick the following year. Within a few years you have your QB and a good offensive line and you're ready to roll.

Take the QB first and he's going to get the crap beat out of him and five years down the road you're going to be starting all over again, just like the Texans did. The Browns expansion team made the same mistake with Tim Couch. The Jaguars, on the other hand drafted Tony Boselli with their pick and another tackle in the second round and they almost completely avoided the laughingstock phase of an expansion team. The Panthers did take their QB, Kerry Collins with the 1 pick, however they slapped together a veteran offensive line and defense around him and made the playoffs in year 2. Then they collapsed like a house of cards when the vets began to go away, turning into a laughing stock by year 4.

There's just no substitute for doing it right: build in the trenches and then go get your QB and layer in the other pieces around them. You can take a GREAT WR in the first round and still go 0-16.

 

The points against Sanchez are well taken, but if he falls to 17, I think the jets have to take him. At that point, he represents a value pick, and never underestimate the difference in pressure on him between getting getting drafted high (and even having a team trade up to get him) and slipping to a team that wasn't neceesarily planning on drafting a QB. I love all these posters who say that he would be too risky a pick and we should go the 'safe' route w/a WR at 17. Really, you're that sure that Nicks or Harvin or -- especially -- Heyward-Bey is a sure thing? (No way Crabtree is there, and probably not Maclin, either.) Look at previous drafts and you'll see that 1st round WRs turn into busts at least as often as QBs do.

The fact is that the Jets can't possibly be sure they have a competent NFL QB on their roster, let alone one of the 'franchise' variety, and if Sanchez slips to 17, drafting him would simply be a matter of getting value while addressing a roster weakness.

 

Sanchez will be a bust! His arm strength is questionable as his side line throws just aren't up to par. He throws a good medium pass over the middle. If you watched U.S.C football you will see most of his positive throws were a 15 to 20 yd post pattern. You could get away with that in college but not the pros. You have to be able to stretch the field. If you watched Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco played in college you seen the arm strength. Thats why Stafford is more of a prospect than Sanchez. If you pick any player as your 1st round pick he will be more of a star than a bust thats why he is a 1st round pick. You have to go receiver here and take a guy that has has sucess in college. Even Robisque who was a early 2nd is more of a guarantee than Sanchez.

 

You're making things up, "just to sound like a know it all".

David Carr didn't have a HUGE arm, but it was strong enough...He was extremely accurate and very athletic. In 2001, Carr threw 46 TDs and just 9 INTs -- in a pro-style offense.

Low-key? He is a very fiery guy with great leadership abilities. He knows how to pump up his team - he just got to a point in Houston where he figured he couldn't go out there and win. Two of his biggest strengths were his poise and leadership.

No quarterback likes getting hit - David Carr was sacked 249 times in 75 games in Houston. How much success did you expect him to have?

At Fresno, Carr was one of the toughest QBs that I've ever seen...he'd always hang in the pocket and take the hit. After Houston, he's shell-shocked now - the guy has a permanent case of happy feet.

(I'll try not to get too carried away with Fresno anymore this week...)

 

When I watch Jimmy Clausen, I see a lot of David Carr. I see so many similarities between the two: both are extremely athletic for pocket style quarterbacks and both have the ability to throw extremely accurate long passes; pro-style offense; similar size; great footwork; quick release -- the only main difference is throwing motion - Clausen's is close to perfect and Carr's was three-quarter sidearm. Right now, Clausen has so much confidence - he'll put Notre Dame back on the map. If he continues to grow as a passer, he'll be a #1 overall pick candidate in 2010.

I'm not high on Matt Stafford - he forces a lot of passes and relies way too much on his arm strength. AJ Green made some unreal catches and bailed Stafford out a bunch of times in 2008.

Mark Sanchez has to drafted by a team that will let him sit-and-learn the position. He has tons of potential.

I think Clausen has the ability to become the next great college quarterback -- and the best pro quarterback prospect in a very, very long time.

 

We have been disagreeing on Carr for over a year. BTW, he had one of the best arms I've seen in person and I've seen a bunch. The sack numbers are almost identical to Obrien . (I've looked it up before) and both of them held on to the ball too long. I don't know Carr personally, just what was said about him after he left Houston. He didn't look great filling in for Manning in the Viking game last year either. True, none like getting hit, but he became gun-shy. Nothing made up. just a difference of opinion.

 

How can you judge him now? He's a goddamn backup! He became a washed up NFL player before the age of 27.

I'll take another #1 overall QB and compare the two in terms of getting sacked - in 11 NFL seasons, Peyton Manning has been sacked 205 times. David Carr was sacked 249 times in the 5 seasons he spent in Houston...

He's not the same player that he was at Fresno and early on with the Texans - his head is completely out of the game.

Carr never held on to the ball to long - he couldn't do that. I'm not sure the exact number, but someone on ESPN timed how long Carr had to throw the ball on a three step drop -- it was something like 2.8 seconds. Nothing can develop in 2.8 seconds.

Sure, he's become gun-shy - he's afraid his head is going to get knocked off if he stays in the pocket.

David Carr is a bust, plain and simple. If he had an offensive line in Houston, I think it would've been a different story.

 

My boy Steve "the big dog" on WDAE 620 am, Tampa radio says almost daily ( and he doesn't want him on the Bucs either....lol he'd rather try Luke McNown), that Sanchez simply DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH SNAPS!!!
If this kid thinks "hey I had moderate success, I'm ready for the NFL"......then he's in for a rude awakening

 

How about trading our 1st round pick and Vernon Slowston to Detroit for their number one pick next year? Its all but gauranteed that next years 1st round Detroit pick will be high enough to get Bradford.

 

That post regarding the WRs was terrible and easily refuted. You can prove almost anything if you search hard enough for the right data.

 

I like Sanchez at 17. You can afford to let someone sit in the bottom half of the draft. If we're in the top 5 I'd have serious reservations but you can sit Sanchez, let Ratliff and Clemens battle it out. If one of them turns out to be great, then you can try to sell Sanchez to a team that is picking around 10 next year as a guy who will be available when you pick, cost less then a Bradford/McCoy and has spent a year in an NFL training program.

 

he is from usc, a trojan, a condom, a dickbag.