That's odd. I've heard these very same characteristics throughout this thread... ...now I'm not comparing Clemens to Namath by any means, but it appears the only thing he may be lacking is the 'it' factor. U think any young QB starting behind that '07 line would look good and give him all the confidence in the world? My point being, why not let him get a chance and see what we have on our roster. Also, Ainge is nowhere near ready to be a starting QB. Last year he looked like a statue back there in the pocket. His footwork was pretty horrible and looked like he needed a some work on his mechanics. He's got a great build for a QB, but he doesn't have a great arm. He is very smart with the ball but is immobile. I see him as a Chad 2.0. Hopefully he'll gotten better but I think he'll need more time to get it together...if we decide to make him our future. This is going to come down to Clemens and Ratliff. Clemens has something to prove and Ratliff will get his opportunity. May the best man win.
Last Off Season - the real situation The fanbase was divided, with Chad Fans going to be disappointed if their boy did not start, but a greater number having seen enough of the Chadster. What kind of environment is that to sell PSL's in? It would have been an easier decision if one clearly outshone the other, but Chad being the Red Flag Wonder he has always been, he still didn't win it outright. Enter Favre, and businesswise it was a smart move. NONE OF THAT means that Clemens failed. Just stop. That ridiculous criticism has been fully answered and explained. The team invested a high second in Clemens. He won more games with a team that was actually in worse shape than did the current starting Qb for Miami. He is listed in the depth chart as the team's #1 Qb. To say it's been "proven" that he cannot succeed in the NFL is ludicrous. That about covers it.
So you think Mangini went to Woody and said "Hey boss, we've got a good young QB here in Clemens; he's ready to lead and take this team for the next level." And of course Woody then replied "Let him sit for two years, I know football and I want Brett Favre!". Or maybe, just maybe, it was more like "Hey boss, neither of these QBs is lighting it up; I'm not sure either of these guys can get us where we want to be." To which Woody replied, "Let 'em sit for two years, I gotta sell some PSLs and I want Brett Favre!"
LTJF - Most QBs who achieve immediate success in the NFL do so when thrown into an otherwise adept team and handed the keys immediately. The situation is built for their success. The offensive gameplan is crafted around them. Can you please tell me which QBs have found immediate success in the situation in which Clemens found himself in 07? He came off the bench, behind a weak line and with no running game, into an offensive gameplan built for an entirely different type of QB. He clearly struggled with the style of offense he was being asked to run, and yet, as so many others have pointed out, he did give a glimpse of the natural tools at his disposal. The next offseason, he's gaining in the QB competition, when his owner (as Big Blocker points out above and I earlier pointed out in a post which you failed to respond to) realizes that his struggles the previous season may make the task of selling PSLs quite difficult. Hence, a megawatt star is brought in for the position, and Clemens is relegated to the practice field to watch and develop again. You seem to think this is a waste of five years. I say it's THREE years well spent in development. There's a reason why so many QBs fail when asked to come in too soon. The teams drafting them generally haven't built the team prior to their arrival. They come into poor situations and aren't given a chance to develop. Clemens has now had three seasons. He very well may not be the answer, but to summarily dismiss him at this point is foolish. As far as the issue of why he hasn't been anointed the starter, there's a new head coach sitting in the front office. I said this earlier but, again, you didn't respond. While Schotty will have his input, I'm certain Ryan wants to ultimately make the decision. He has good tape on Ratliff. He's seen what Clemens can do. My guess (which is all any of us can do) is that he'll make a decision within the first two weeks of TC, perhaps after minicamp.
I'd say flustered in the pocket, inaccurate passes, and poor decision making outweigh toughness under fire, quick release, and strong arm.
One year. I hardly think it's a stretch to suggest that they figured they'd either find immediate success with Favre, or he'd be gone after a single season. Either way, there's no harm in letting someone sit an extra season if you have an immediate plan in place. QBs in the NFL far too often begin starting while still undeveloped.
And these can't possibly be the product of a porous offensive line and a quick push into an uncomfortable offense, right?
The difference between the Clemens and Ratliff preseasons is that we've had a chance to see Clemens throw in regular season games, and it wasn't pretty. We don't know how Ratliff will look, but I'm hoping we find out and that the result is very different.
The fact that they wanted Favre back this year (if you can believe anything they say) shows that they were willing to let Clemens sit for at least another two years.
It's not that he looked bad. He looked terrible, he looked lost, and he looked no different last year in the preseason. I just don't think he has it. It's not like I dislike the guy. I hope to hell he's the answer. I just really doubt that's the case.
We gonna have to agree to disagree. You have Ratliff who was a practice squad guy and then had one nice preseason. You have Ainge who was a rookie and who's never thrown a pass in a regular NFL season game. And you have Clemens who started half a season and has been around for three years. Under these conditions it tells me a lot about how the team feel about Clemens. And that corresponds to how I feel about him.
And I'll say it again. Awful offensive line play are a direct result to the attributes you've listed above. If you fail to acknowledge how the play of one effects the other than there really isn't much room for further discussion.
Ryan's Right... This team needs to run the ball. Hard, often, alot. Passing should be unexpected -- if it is it will be successful. Either one of these young QBs will be able to hand off the ball and get their faking down pat. Each of these QBs needs to learn to get their footwork under control behind the first string OL so that there are no tripping and missed hand-offs. Each QB needs to practice his cheering on the backsides of his fast-disappearing RB into the end zone, also. The attitude has to be domination -- not finesse or trickery. The offense only works if they expect you to run and they are also afraid that you will run at the same time. Let's get that straight this year. Then, let's get the DL regularly into the opponent's backfield. We should be playing behind THEIR line of scrimmage, not behind ours.
You make it sound like every single time he went back he was running for his life. Yes he was under pressure and yes he got sacked a lot. But other QBs like Kitna, Roethlisberger, and McNabb were also sacked at a similar rate and they had far superior seasons. Hell, Brody Croyle had a better season than Clemens. It wasn't like he had a bad year, he had by far the worst year of any QB in the league. He's not the answer to the Jets QB problems.
Off the top of my head, I'm gonna say Kitna, Big Ben and McNabb started for the entire season in 07 (well, maybe not McNabb). Clemens was told to start during the 2nd half of the season, so I could only imagine the aforementioned QB's would have a far superior season than Clemens. Brody Croyle's OL was garbage then and it would be currently considered garbage TODAY. They don't even compare. Again, Croyle is another example of how bad a QB can be when thrown behind a shitty offensive line. Still, I'm gonna go on a limb here and say Croyle had a better season because he played more games than Clemens.
He went 3 and 5 in 8 game starts and he was running for his life consistently and still outproduced Chad with the same team. Nice to see you're comparing him to veteran QB's who hold onto the ball forever and take alot of sacks regardless of the OL protection. Really surprised you are such a stat monkey and called Namath great when he was among the worst Stat QB's in NFL history to be in the HOF but was clearly one of the best QB's of his era and as good a pure passer as the league ever had. How did Chad look against the Ravens in the playoffs? How did Brady look against the Giants in the playoffs? Clemens was under big time pressure almost every time he went back to throw. Our OL was horrible, we had no running game and teams were stacked in on us the entire year.
Pennington/Clemens were sacked a combined 53 time and they split them about 50/50. They were running for their lives pretty much every time they dropped back. Our offensive line was much much worse than Pittsburgh or Philly so there's really no comparison; we had possibly the worst in the league.
I'm not basing my opinion of Clemens on statistics, just using them to further enhance my point. I saw Namath play for years and you could see how good he was. I watch Clemens play and I can see how bad he is. And sorry Winston, if Clemens did such an outstanding job outplaying Chad, then why wasn't he the starter going into the next season? Wait, I can answer that. It's because he sucked. :wink: I hope I'm wrong about Clemens and that he can actually lead this team. I'll be rooting as much as possible for one of the Jet QBs, any of them, to show they've got what it takes to help this team achieve its goals.
there are way too many factors when dealing with clemens.. its easy to build an argument for him.. easy to build one against him.. truth is you have no idea what affect the O-line had on clemens.. it could have completely demoralized him so that even when he had time.. he was uncomfortable.. or maybe he lacks the ability to work a pocket and even with the line we have now.. he still won't be to be productive... I don't see how you can rate Ratliff based off preseason games.. clemens had great preseason.. and well.. yeah ... that it.. the best part about having a coach who can actally manage a team.. is that we dont need to worry about retarded deision.. if clemens is actually good and fit to be QB he will.. if not and Ratliff is.. he will... if not.. we draft one.. how someone can say we have the worst QB situtation i the NFL is beyond me.. we have two potential QBs.. if that doesnt work we draft one.. maybe if we didnt have a 1st or 2nd round pick... yeah we'd be in a shitty situation and our season basically rests on the sholders, or arms, of clemens and ratliff... but it doesnt.. we have options... so all we can do right now is wait.. whatever needs to be done.. will..
Clemens didn't do an outstanding job he didn't have the cast around him to do an outstanding job and he was thrown into a bad situation and showed happy feet, rough decision making with little time to do it a nice live arm and a great quick release. That's all we saw, he didn't suck, he wasn't great, he was what he was. Your answer simply doesn't hold water. Chad was outright cut, thrown to the curb, allowed to go to a division competitor because management thought he sucked. They were wrong he still can play not great but certainly he was above average until he was forced to face pressure and than he looked alot like Clemens although without the arm or the release. Clemens remained the back up wasn't moved and is still the odds on favorite to start the season. Rumor aside the reason Shot is still the OC is because the want to keep Clemens and probably Ratliff in the same system. I suspect it will be Clemens job to lose in TC not a real competition and if you're right Clemens will fail and Ratliff or other will start with limited snaps in TC, not a very good prospect for the team. I think you like many have jumped the gun on Clemens, that doesn't mean you're wrong but you certainly don't have any real evidence to prove that Clemens isn't capable of being a very good NFL QB.
