I understand the desire to look in other places, with a truckload of money tied up in Vernon Gholston and a veteran like Bryan Thomas on the roster. But we NEED a pass rush. "Let's wait and see what we have with Gholston..." is a terrible philosophy. "Let's wait and see what we have with Joey Harrington..." "Let's wait and see what we have with Robert Gallery..." "Let's wait and see what we have with David Carr..." "Let's wait and see what we have with Mike Williams..." Fuck waiting, fuck seeing. There is nothing wrong with making a mistake at the top of the draft; shit happens. But, as a franchise, you cannot stick your head in the sand and say "Well, we tried!" Now, the difference between the afore-mentioned quarterbacks and a pass rusher is, you can only have one good, well-paid QB on your team. Not so with pass rushers. If we draft a solid pass rusher and Vernon eventually develops into the second coming of LT, SWEET! Having too many quality pass rushers is one of those "good problems." I like Everette Brown, but no matter what, if the Jets draft a 3-4 outside linebacker with their first pick, I will applaud their bravery.
waittt a second, gholston has had one year in the nfl, trying to learn a new position. Let rex work with him first before you making absurd comparisons to Joey Harrington and Robert Gallery. If we draft a passrusher defensive end, how do you know he won't be a bust? If we sign a free agent, how do you know he will adapt to our system and be the dominant pass rusher he was on his previous team? The Jets will absolutely not draft an outside linebacker with there first, but they would select a defensive end, but a pure defensive end (not a guy like Maybin who I love, but will probably be an OLB), but a guy like Larry English or Michael Johnson. You can't guarentee any player is going to have an immediate impact on your football team... I also agree that we need a dominant pass rusher, BUT your statements are ridiculous as far as comparisons to other pro players who have failed.
You know what? The "new position" thing is starting to wear out its welcome. Gholston wasn't a college quarterback that we moved to linebacker. And I wasn't likening him to other busts. I specifically said that he might evolve into a solid linebacker. But other franchises have solidified their team's fate by ignoring needs they've supposedly already addressed. Overkill at the quarterback position is a not a good thing. Overkill at the wide receiver position is not a good thing. But overkill at the pass rushing position just translates to more killing.
well, your comparing the pass rusher to QB's and Offensive Line guys. He has had one year in the NFL. if we draft your butt buddy Everette Brown, and put him at outside linebacker, we still don't have a wide receiver or a pass rushing defensive end (you and I both know our defensive ends are not doing anything for us right now). If we draft Everette Brown as an outside line backer, he's going to have to make the same transition Gholston did, how are you certain that he wouldn't be another guy like Gholston in his first year? Then we used a first rounder, to have two outside line backers that aren't the dominant players we all thought they were in college? Your talking about overkill, but getting pure pass rushers that make an impact in the NFL aren't the easiest to find. Your argument would much more be suited for an argument for a PASS RUSHING defensive end. Guy's that don't need to learn a new position and have proven they have the size, speed and strength to get to the Quarterback from the same position they played in college. I am not debating whether Gholston will or won't be dominant, BUT with a new regime, I'm willing to take another year to draft other positions and see what Rex can do with this defense and Gholston before we take another risk on Brown who will have to make the same transition.
Gholston wasn't used right by Mangina. You can't call the guy a failure when he doesn't get a chance to succeed. Let Double R work his magic and see what it brings. Don't waste another draft pick, a high one at least, on another OLB. We wrapped up MILLIONS into Gholston....WAIT AND SEE.
OK. I have some problems with your tone, first of all. Secondly, we run a 3-4. 3-4's don't operate on pass-rushing defensive ends. But if they did, Ellis' sack total from last year was pretty decent, so while you might know our DE's aren't doing anything for us right now, I certainly don't. And frankly, "how do we know he won't bust" applies to wide receivers as well. It applies to everything. But "scared" is no way to run a draft.
They don't need to. They have Marques Murrell. Who, if utilized can be good. Mangini had the OLB's drop into coverage last year more than was necessary. I mean what business did Gholston have chasing receivers down field. Of course he wasn't effective. Classic Mangini - forcing a square peg into a round hole. Another thing..Who was coaching Gholston? Mangini and Sutton? You have to be kidding me. Mangini was a cb coach and a defensive coordinator for like 10 minutes. He brought nothing in terms of coaching to Gholston. And Sutton? need I say more? I will say this. If Gholston does not improve after having Ryan in his ear for this year then yes I say next year we draft one
Dude, we need to draft for offensive right now. Do you not see what this team has done in the offseason? We've filled a hole at LB, acquired enough CBs to fill out our defense, will probably bring in a safety to start opposite Rhodes, and re-filled the hole we might've had if Moore had left. But at the same time, we've lost a starting QB and our #1 Wide Receiver. Do the math, guy. It's going to be Maclin, DHB, Britt, or Sanchez at #17 and that seems obvious to me.
I don't know about that. I understand where you're coming from, and I might be speaking from bias as a "D" guy, but I feel like Chansi Stuckey is the next Jerricho Cotchery; a guy used too little in the previous administration who will thrive when given the starting role. And I'm fine going with Clemens and Ratliff for two reasons. One, I think either of them could turn into a decent quarterback. Two, I don't think Mark Sanchez will. If we do draft offense, running back in the first. I'm not big on first round receivers.
Everybody's talking about how Gholston will benefit from the new system, but I think the guy who will benefit most is Pace. That guy was great at the beginning of the season when were attacking, but regressed when they changed how we played defense. I remember reading interviews with him where he said he would rather be attacking instead of sitting back and reacting to the offense. I think Pace is going to have a huge season - double digit sacks. Book it.
Would somebody mind pointing out a pass-rushing 3-4 defensive end in the NFL for me, please? I'd love to know who exactly that is. Silly me, I always thought the ends in a 3-4 were responsible for occupying blockers while the OLB's rushed the passer.
see, thing is, in that situation we'd still need our #1 WR. RB would be set, LB would be set. But wr..... we have 2 3rd rounders. I have this pipe dream that we'd be able to get braylon edwards for a 3rd and change. he wants out of cleveland, had a real down year, had all that "in the doghouse stuff", and mangini prolly doesn't like him, with all his "core player values" shit. winslow went for a 2nd and a 5th, if im not mistaken. it's arguable as to who'd have more value on the market, winslow or edwards, but taking all circumstances right now i'd say winslow, and he went for a 2nd. maybe we could get edwards for a 3rd and then some. with our other 3rd rounder we'd address some NT or DE depth, and all our holes would be filled. i mean, im still po-ed that the pats got moss for a 4th lol. considering things maybe we'd be able to get edwards for a 3rd. but again, it's just a pipe dream. it prolly isn't realistic at all. who knows.
Well, you have guys in college that specialize in stopping the run (Tyson Jackson), and then guys that get sacks, because there tall, strong, athletic and can get through blocks. A defensive end does occupy blockers, but essentially, every defensive ends goal is to get to the quarterback. If you occupy blockers, and the OLB's drop back into coverage, you get little pressure to the QB's. Your right in the 3-4 , the OLB's are expected to bring on pressure, but you can't say that the DE's only job is to occupy blockers, they need to apply pressure. Guys like Tyson Jackson are much better against the run, and some guys can use there long arms, long bodies to get to the quarterback. Im not arguing with you in the sense that we need guys that can get to the quarterback, but Ellis is not doing much to occupy blockers.I would love a guy like Orakpo, but there is no way he is sliding past the top 10 (even with him injured at the combine). I like Everette Brown a lot, because he is a hard worker, smart and one hell of an athlete, but I don't want to draft another guy in the first round that has to transition into OLB. I want to draft a guy that will stay in his natural position, where he can get to the quarterback, as well as stop the run. You often hear in the combine, "so and so defensive end needs to work on the passrush)...which is the knock on Igor Ovshansky...
If Orakpo or Everette Brown falls to #17, he could be BPA. And the way our FA period is going, Jets might have the luxury of going BPA this year with our first pick.
Wasn't used right? This isn't rocket science and he is not a skill player. He had one job and only one. Run forward and tackle whoever has the ball in their hands. It doesn't matter where he lined up he failed miserably.
