It shows up on my end. Well, just click on this link and scroll down to the Browns section- http://www.logoserver.com/NFL.html
What I call the loser mentality is the approach to assessing a situation. I see people are discussing Leftwich as an option for QB, and they are judging his stats based on his situation. Which is a fair way to judge anyone for that matter. But when it comes to Vick, all I hear is no he is not accurate. Granted he needs to get better in that dept. to maintain success in this league. Not being able to complete passes is a drive killer. But let's look at the situation from Vick's point. He has never played with a WR as talented as our starting two. And on these boards we have discussions about our needs for a real number one WR. They are that hard to find. If Vick was playing with talented receivers from the beginning of his career like Manning having Marvin Harrison, then I would understand your points better. But despite the fact he has never had an Offensive Line as talented as ours, and WRs as talented as ours, he was still able to win.
I actually think Vick got railroaded. What he did was wrong, but to spend two years in jail and losing hundreds of millions of dollars for cruelty to animals is way over the top for me, particularly when you consider that people who harm fellow human beings are treated less harshly. I find what Ray Lewis did years ago far worse. I find TO's treatment of teammates and his selfishness far worse for a football team than Vicks's trangressions. I just don't think he is a very good QB and I felt the same way before the dog fighting thing. The numbers I put in my post above bear that out. A 53% completion percentage is a joke in today's NFL. In fact, anything below 60% is below average. I don't care what he did nor did not do in his past. By the way, Vick was 11 for 24 for 136 yards with no TDs and 1 interception in his only NFC Championship game appearance. That is horrible.
At least when comparing Vick and Lewis, one can present arguments either way. But comparing Vick to Owens? That's wrong. Sure, Owens is a prima donna and nags teammates and has troubles getting along with people, but he doesn't kill innocent animals as far as we know. As for the team aspect, I'm sure there are Jets players and coaches who like dogs.
Lol :rofl: I'm sure Vick wasn't the only one dog fighting in the league, but definitely the biggest fish
They didn't have the evidence on Lewis they did on Vick. How can you compare TO being a dope to Vick torturing animals, killing animals and being involved in an interstate conspiracy to do both? He wasn't railroaded he was nailed dead to rights and pled out.
Please don't misrepresent what I meant. I said TO's act is worse for a FOOTBALL team than what Vick did. Owens single handedly ruins franchises. Look at his history. Vick certainly owes society a debt and Owens does not. But I find it hard to believe Vick would tear a team apart like Owens does wherever he goes. I don't any part of either one.
Did you read the final sentence in my post? I implied that Vick is going to have a difficult time getting accepted by his new teammates and coaches. Vick's presence will likely tear apart a team.
I just think that, from what I heard, dog fighting was pervasive and that Vick was made an example of becaus of who he was more than what he did. I never heard that Vick was a bad teammate, while Owens is possibly the worst teammate in the NFL. I agree that, from a societal standpoint, Vick is far worse than TO, who has done nothing illegal. Again, I want no part of either person. Vick is a terrible QB and the bad publicity he would bring the Jets would be horrible. Owens is a franchise wrecker, pure and simple.
I don't want to argue about this. I do remember many NFL players standing up for him, so I don't think the players view him as negatively as you portray. In any event, I don't want him anywhere near the Jets for many reasons including the circus it would bring. I was just pointing out to another poster that I am not biased against Vick.
Funny I still think there was something behind the whole thing myself. His contract was so SO SO huge and he was not really playing to that level they were paying him. SAD to say but thats a HELL of a way to get out of a contract if that were even true.
Actually I beg to differ. I think the majority of the players at least in this league respect him. I've heard many different players talk positively of him. And not all were from his team. Like I said Vick wasn't the only player doing the dog thing. Just the biggest fish. Coaches and Management are something else. Coaches plan around players and they need to know they will be there. Management invests the loot so they want return on their investment.
We're the Jets. The circus is here with Favre. Granted the Vick thing would be Ringling Bros x100, but hey circus is a circus. Only thing that stops the circus is winning. I just want to win. I could care less about the other stuff. If we win, then we are talking about our talent and how good we are. If we lose then we are talking about the same Shit that we've been talking about since Parcells left
I think a team should wait a year, draft Tebow and sign Vick. Throw Vick and Tebow in the backfield each play and teams won't know what the hell is going to happen.
