Jeter never had success w/o him? Our lineups were better before we got him despite having much less talented lineups. He carried us early in 2007(his one truly great year here but of course he was invisible in postseason AGAIN) but besides that time when has he carried us? and what has he carried us to?
First of all, no, they weren't. They've been better since A-Rod has been here. Secondly, why are you putting the production of the entire lineup on one man's shoulders? That's silly. Third, and most importantly, if you want to see a real difference, look at the pitching. Year - Runs - ERA 1996 - 871 - 4.65 1997 - 891 - 3.84 1998 - 965 - 3.82 1999 - 900 - 4.13 2000 - 871 - 4.76 2001 - 804 - 4.02 2002 - 897 - 3.87 2003 - 877 - 4.02 Avg. - 884 - 4.12 Yanks obtain A-Rod 2004 - 897 - 4.69 2005 - 886 - 4.52 2006 - 930 - 4.41 2007 - 968 - 4.49 2008 - 789 - 4.28 Avg. - 894 - 4.48 And that includes last year's shitfest of a lineup due to injuries and regression. Unless, of course, you blame A-Rod for Posada, Jeter, Melky, and Cano, too. Take last year's anamoly out, and the team has averaged 920 runs with A-Rod in the lineup. So since A-Rod got here, you're looking at an offense that produces an extra 10-36 runs over the course of a season than the lineups before that, which is typically good for 1-4 extra wins. But you have a pitching staff that has been coughing up an extra 58 runs per season, on average, good for about six less wins. Now, I'm sure this is where you start to talk about how some games matter more than others and blah blah blah, letting your brain's blind spots get in the way of reality.
So the Yankees pitching is the reason ARod has 1 RBi in his last 16 postseason games? and looking at that list in 2000 during our last Championship season our ERA was higher than any of the 5 years that ARod has been here and in '96 the ERA was higher than all but 2 seasons w/ ARod. Our pitching hasn't been great but we have lost in postseason mostly do to not being able to hit and that starts w/ our supposed best hitter. of course it's not all on him but he has been a major reason why we haven't won in october. Is it a coincidence that the only good series he has had as aYnakee in postseason we won?
No, but the Yankee pitching has had far more impact on the team's postseason fortunes than A-Rod's lack of RBI. Side note: That's such a pathetic stat to use for production in the playoffs. There are plenty of other stats you can use to show that he hasn't played well (and he hasn't), but to use the one that relies on people getting on base in front of him is misleading. Jesus Christ, man... you need to get over this. Blame Torre, Gordon, and Rivera more than A-Rod for 2004. They should have had that series, and it had nothing to do with A-Rod. Blame RJ and Moose more than A-Rod for 2005 (five runs in the first three innings for both of them). Blame the entire offense equally in 2006. And blame Wang (and Torre again) more than A-Rod for 2007. Pitchers have far greater impacts on any one game than any one hitter. You brought up the 2000 postseason and the team's crappy regular season ERA. Go back and look at the game logs. Their pitchers turned it around in the playoffs... not the offense. And just so I'm clear, no, this is not a "defense" of A-Rod. He has sucked in the postseason. This is just putting things in their proper perspective.
Oh yeah! It's time for another edition of junc's "ARod makes the Yankees suck via osmosis"! I wonder what junc would say if Jeter would finally man up and admit that the Yankees are a better team with ARod on it?
It hasn't, the failure of our bats to hit in october have been the main reason. Getting some runs, giving your pitchers some room to work w/ and taking presure off really help a pitching staff. We had supposedly the best lineup in baseball but couldn't hit when it mattered which was the opposite of the dynasty teams. 1 RBI in 16 postseason games is a pathetic stat? How about this. Daisuke Matsuzaka in 1 postseason game in 2007 had 2 RBI, ARod had 1 in 16 games. How is that pathetic? Do I need to show his BA w/ RISP? would showing how awful that is help you? Yep it's everyone else's fault except ARod. Our best hitter not hitting in october was ok it was everyone else's fault First off I wouldn't expect jeter to lie and if he did say that it wouldn't change my mind. I don't base my opinions on what others say, I post my original thoughts.
I wonder what he would say if Cashman doesn't resign him after his contract is up next year and there is a good possibility of that. Certainly not for the 20 million a year he is getting now.
If they have to overpay to keep him they will and they should for all he has meant to the yankees but if he didn't come back what would that have to do w/ all his has done for the Yanks n the last 12 years?
See? Once again, you totally change what everyone else is saying to make your argument. No one. Not a single person, is saying that ARod is free of his guilt for failing in October. Even his biggest apolgists admit that he hasn't hit in the postseason. It's undeniable. The point is, while you're always willing to put most of the blame on his shoulders for being the reason we haven't won a World Series in almost a decade, people looking realistically say "Well, it sucks that ARod hasn't helped, but this Yankees team hasn't hit for shit, and their pitching in October has been absolutely atrocious." And this is where your argument fails, since it doesn't reflect the counter-argument you're supposedly arguing against. It's not everyone else's fault but ARod's. It's everyone's fault, including ARod. I assume you meant to write that it "wouldn't" change your mind. That's fine. It was only a joke. :wink: There's no way Jeter doesn't resign. He's a lifer. Cashman couldn't survive the public fallout if he didn't resign Jeter. I agree he won't get $20M though.
No offense junc, but that is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing related to the Yankees you've ever posted.
I have never said it's ALL ARod's fault but no one player has been more responsible. There's no cap in MLB, Jeter should never wear another uniform. He can clearly still play and should retire a Yank and if we have to overpay a bit then that's what needs to be done.
That's patently untrue as well. I agree that he should never wear another uniform, but there's no way you overpay him to assure that.
It absolutely is true. Everyone has had moments since Game 5 of the 2004 ALCS except for Alex. He's our most talented player but has played to the level of our worst player. To have a bad game, a bad series, a bad playoff yer is one thing but game after game, series after series, year after year? He's been an embarrassment.
In summary: Junc doesn't like A-Rod, and doesn't understand the concepts of small sample sizes or confirmation bias.
In summary I root for ARod to do well but he disappoints me in every big spot. You can use the smaple size argument all you want but big time players need to come up big when it matters most and ARod time after time after time does not come through. Every year I hope things have changed and he will come through, in '07 he did it in the reg season at least but he was his normal self in postseason.
