Shanahan's "full control" is a dying thing. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find another team that operates that way. So it's no wonder Cowher and Shanahan are not being considered. Cowher was reportedly pissed because he felt Woody dissed him by not negotiating directly with him and instead having Tannenbaum do it. We'll never know if that report was ever substantiated because it's something that Cowher would never admit to. But it's also hard not to imagine it happening to some degree with the initial talks between the Jets and Cowher. So yeah, Cowher's not here and nor is Shanahan (unless Shanahan has now re-thought this and is willing to relinquish some of it, which could be why we're hearing reports tht he might still be interested). But there is no way the Jets are going to back off of this "full control" bullshit, nor should they. I'm comfortable with hiring a HC, period. Let him know that's the limit of his responsiblity.. just win games, period, and let the FO office do all the other stuff.
So, let me get this straight. You believe that Parcells gives orders and his underlings march... and yet you give him no credit for the 2000 draft... very consistent there, junc.
I should edit my own post by saying that I'd want the new HC to have considerable input, just like Mangini did, in personnel decisions. Not contract negotiations... no money decisions, but acquisitions and drafts, etc. I wouldn't change the relationship Mangini had with the FO while here.
My point wasn't that he's one of the greatest GM's ever. My point was that he knows football and knows how to build a winning program. He's done it everywhere he's ever been.
And if it's true that Mangini had Favre forced on him 3 weeks before the season starts, would you feel the same way?
does everyone realize that you can learn to be a "football guy"........ in 10 years, tannenbaum will surely be considered a football guy as long as he is consistent and remains in his current position. believe me, most teams have checks and balances within the org so its hard to really fuk up a decision. unless your the lions, or the..........jets jil
You are comparing apples and oranges. Parcells told everyone Groh had that power, told everyone it was something he believe in that a HC should be in charge of picking players. Groh quit, parcells gave out 2 more ridiculous contracts after that. he didn't care about our future and I never said Parcells gets no cresdi for 200 but Groh had final say on the draft and contract matters just as BP had it from '97-'99 and the month after Groh left before we got Bradway where BP gave some going away presents to Mo and Cox.
He's done it everywhere as a HEAD COACH not as a GM and w/ the Jets, Pats and Cowboys when he had full power he won a grand total of ONE playoff game('98 Jets vs. Jax) in 10 seasons. '93-'95 NE- 1 playoff app, zero wins('96 he lost power and they reached SB) '97-'99 NYJ- 1 playoff app, 1 playoff win -'03-'06 Dallas: 2 playoff apps, zero playoff wins
That seems like a double hypothetical, but in the interest of speculation I'll try to answer you this way. I'm sure Mangini had considerable input with Tannenbaum in just about all personnel decisions, Favre included. There's a difference between input and final say though. It's possible Mangini was against Favre, we may never know. But I'm still comfortable with that general arrangement... the HC sitting in on all personnel meetings... draft decisions, etc. But it should still be up to the GM to make the final moves, because once negotiations start, a lot of things can change and change quickly. Money comes into it... cap issues pop up. Draft trades become impossible to pull off or on the other hand, things open up to where you can grab a Keller, for example, at the last moment, even though the HC wanted a pure WR. So yeah, I'd keep things the way they were. I think that works best for this team, especially since I have confidence in Tennenbaum. Bradway was another story altogether.
Don't you think you should take the fact that all 3 were total LOSER teams before he showed up into consideration?
So you don't hold Tannenbaum accountable for his part of anything that happened under Bradway's watch?
I have been told that getting to the playoffs means nothing, it's winning in January that counts so how can a guy have 1 playoff win in 10 years picking players be considered a success?
Florio has a bone to pick with the Jets. He called Mike Tannenbaum "Andy Barnard with a Law Degree." For those of you who don't know, Andy Barnard is a dumb character on The Office. His article takes unfounded personal shots at Tannenbaum without knowing the whole story. He never credits Tannenbaum where credit is due, and is coming up with ridiculous conspiracy theories because one coach (Cowher) didn't want to come here and another (Spagnolo) hasn't been hired yet. It's really ridiculous and this guy should truly be ashamed of himself.
Everyone should be accountable for every decision, of course. But you seem to be wanting to bash Tannenbaum. Why not just come out and say what's on your mind? Please tell me why Tannenbaum is not a good fit for the NY Jets, if that's where you're going (I don't know). I don't understand the line of questioning or the point you're trying to make. Please be clearer. Thanks.
When someone has input on what ends up being either a group or someone else's decision, it is not merely a matter of expressing an up or down opinion. You have to marshall arguments, hopefully have some facts to support your position, and then quite obviously what you say will come across as something other than a mere opinion that may have no basis. Mangini may well have had doubts about bringing Favre in, but was he able to say "why do that when we have a Qb right here that we should all have confidence in?" No. Not persuasively, anyway. It's easy to look back and say that somebody whether Mangini or someone else could have or should have predicted that Favre might not live up to the higher expectations some had for him. But a choice had to be made, and the alternatives at the time were not persuasive. If by comparison Mangini at that time felt strongly that Clemens or Pennington or even Ratliff, or some combination thereof, would probably offer better Qb play than Favre, and said so, he would have had a right to be pissed if Tanny and Woody went with Favre anyway. Since we all have no reason to think that's what went down, more likely any lack of enthusiasm Mangini may have had would have been merely that, and not a strongly presented assertion that the better options were to go with the players already in house. In other words, the fact that the Jets went ahead and got Favre in and of itself is not an indicator that Mangini had little say in the decision. Hey, we're not even sure he was against it, even nominally.
