Just that one point you put up... it's hard for anyone else to play up to their potential when the QB is turning over the ball 2-4 times a game. It happened to Chad today against the Ravens. I don't believe the whole problem is Favre either. I actually am suspect of the play calling which has been hot and cold all along. How else does a long time vet like Favre go from Pro-Bowl to looking like bad Pennington? There is more to it than just the QB perhaps. And yes, the defense seemed to disappear down the stretch as well. Kinda opposite of what has happened the last two years. The truth is, the Jets have plenty of issues. What they are and why will keep us fans busy bitching at each other for months, of that I am sure. My real issue with Salz was the thread topic itself to be honest. The scoop on Pennington isn't anything new. Nothing was revealed at all that hasn't been known all along.
Chad's a good guy and a good QB. But he isn't a great one. His arm really limits him. He really cannot break down the elite defenses of the NFL. When the Ravens take away the running game and the trickeration, it was up to Chad to win the game and he couldn't do it. He tried and never gave up but he had his limitations. I really look at the games against Pitt in the 04-05 year. Granted he wasn't healthy, he still put up very good numbers against teams without great defenses. Against the Steelers though, different story. First game (regular season): Jets 3 - 3 Steelers going into the 4th. Steelers shut down Curtis Martin as expected and the Jets D owned Big Ben (9 for 19 for 144, 0 tds, 2 ints). Chad couldn't lead the Jets into the endzone when the Steelers were there for the taking. Steelers score a TD and Jets answer with a FG. Jets D worn out, receiving no help from the offense. Bettis throws a TD. -Final Score: Jets 6 - 17 Steelers Second game (playoffs): Chad is coming off a tremendous performance against the Chargers. Once again, the Steelers shut down Curtis Martin and once again Jets D owned Big Ben, who managed only 1 touchdown (on a 4-yard shovel pass) and threw 2 very, very crucial interceptions. Really awful. So once again, with the support of the defense and special teams, Chad can be the difference maker. Instead he throws behind Santana Moss on what would've a crucial first down when we were up 17-10. Even the multiple drives (including OT) at 17-17, Chad couldn't get us close enough. He led the offense to just 3 points and threw a pick or two (I think Farrior got one early that set up a Steeler score). -Final Score: Jets 17 - 20 Steelers In 8+ quarters of football against an elite defense, a type of defense you would usually have to face on your way to the Super Bowl, Chad led the Jets to 9 points and a total of 0 TD's. Chad would be perfect for a team like Pitt and Baltimore where they have an elite defense, who can give you amazing field position and score. He is a game manager. But when he needs to make the difference, Chad comes up short. He's a good guy and a good player but he always seems to come up just short. With Favre, we really can win the big games but his erratic play and lack of game management cost us the playoffs. Chad will usually win you the games against weaker opposition but can't overcome the best teams. We are most likely one and done in the playoffs too with Chad. With Favre, he seems to have the capability to take us to the next level but also can cost us easier games.
Yes I honestly do. We'd have won 11-12 games and had a chance to be the 2 seed and even if we did what Miami did yesterday it still would have been worth it. It's alot more fun making the playoffs and losing than not getting there and having ANOTHER coaching search. The K had TWO chances at makeable FGs. It's alot easier on a defense when your QB doesn't turn it over. See how much worse Miami's D looked yesterday w/ all the TOs? That's what happened to our D this year. Ronnie is great and Thomas Jones sucks, right? 2008: Thomas Jones: 290 rushes, 1312 yds, 4.5 YPC, 13 rush TDs Ronnie Brown: 214 rushes, 916 yds, 4.3 YPC, 10 rush TDs Oh and the great Ronnie Brown vs. Baltimore: 12 carries, 19 yds, 1.6 YPC "Ricky was healthy and still dangerous": Ricky 2008: 160 rushes, 659 yds, 4.1 YPC, 4 Tds Leon 2008: 76 rushes, 448 yds, 5.9 YPC, 6 TDs Ginn is a game breaker:rofl2: Ginn would be LUCKY to b our #3 WR. The game breaker Ginn had 2 TDs giving him 4 for his 2 year career. Coles had 7 TDs, Cotch 5, both more than the gamebreakers career totals. Chansi Stuckey had 3 TDs! Miami has good RBs, we had better RBs THIS YEAR, Miami has NO WRs. Chad had no talent to throw to all year. His only decent WR, Camarillo, got hurt. Miami had a much better running game but we had MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better WRs for Chad to throw to and the OLs were about equal. Porter was on the team last year, right? How much of a difference maker was he? Porter didn't show up the last 2 reg season games, one of which the D was thrashed by KC and the O needed to score 38 pts and Porter was invisible again yesterday. You can count Miami in Week 1 as a good team but not SD in week 3? Cassell's 1st start since HS NE was a playoff caliber team? The Cards can never win on the East Coast and they are completely different than when they play at home. Favre wasn't a clear downgrade? Chad took a 1 win team that didn't make half the upgrades we did and didn't have half the talent we had and he won 2 more games w/ them. Fvare got hit alot b/c he held onto the ball, there's a big difference holding onto it looking for a big play and having no time to throw like we saw yesterday. Favre came up big against good defenses? NE's D wasn't really that goiod and he came up big against them. He was GOOD, not great, against tennessee- we won that game w/ defense. Who are these other good defenses he came up big against? Name me the QB that gets 16 carries and 36 yds out of their top 2 RBs, has no WRs to throw to and didn't have any time to throw yet could still be successful? You act like he had the '07 pats offense around him. He led that team to about 5 more wins than they should have had, they overachieved. It's amazing how we have some really good, knowledgable football fans on this board and they can't figure this out. He was awesome for us in 2000:lol::lol: The only bad playoff game he had as a Jet was Oakland but his teammates didn't help either. At Pitt he was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff, at NE in '06 the game turned on a fluke play. #s aren't always black and white.
Chad had 4 quarters to get us in the end zone in Pitt and could not. He is just as guilty as the kicker. Yesterday was vintage Chad. Elite teams take away the run and make him throw. Once that happens game over. As usual his passer rating, smarts and moxy go away when he has to actually throw the ball to win the game. You got Vintage Chad yesterday. A first round one and done Qb. All of those picks chad threw yesterday were on him not the defense. ED Reed read him like a book from cover to cover all day. I don't care if Chad had the 2007 Pats offense he will still not get out of the first round. Stop talking about what the running backs did or did not do. There are dozens of Qb's who have won games on their arms. Tom Brady won how many superbowls without a true number one receiver???? He threw to bums and won the big one.
Tedd Ginn averaged 14.6 per catch with Chad throwing the ball to him. Ted Ginn was going in the first round last year and has blazing speed and good hands. He would be starting on our team right now just like Welker would be who according to you sucks. Thomas Jones doesn't suck, he is not comparable to either Ronnie Brown or Williams. He isn't even in our backfield in short yardage situations. Pennington was an INT machine on the Jets when he didn't have a running game and he is an INT machine on Miami without a running game. Miami plays a two TE set and is committed to running the ball regardless of how many men are in the box. The Jets are a pass first team that runs the ball in passing situations. Favre has always been a high risk high reward QB against every level of competition. Pennington has only been a high risk QB facing good competition. He was embarrasing yesterday and cost his team the game much like Favre did for us down the stretch. The guy is a second tier QB no matter how much you want to suck him off. I'm happy he is gone, I hope Favre is gone and we can finally build this team around a good young QB. It may take years but so what we weren't winning with Chad we aren't winning with a 40 year old Favre. I wouldn't have enjoyed watching the Jets get the ass whopping the Dolphins got yesterday, it would have been no satisfaction at all to win 11, win the division a home field playoff game and have Chad kill the D like that and know we would be going to war with him for the next 3 to 5 years.
He didn't get us in the EZ and he didn't play well BUt he was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff and we were in makeable FG range TWICE w/in minutes and our K couldn't make it. Yesterday was vintage Chad? it's vintage any QB when you have no running game, no pass protection and no decent WRs to throw to. Tom Brady might be the best QB to ever play this game, at worst he is by far the best of his generation. Don't you think it's a tad unfair to compare Chad to Brady?
You are overboard about Brady. Put him on any other team in the NFL and do you think he would have ever been as good? He is a product of the people surrounding him.
Ginn averaged 14.1 not 14.6, last year Cotchery averaged 13.8. In '06 McCareins avreaged 15.1, in '04 Moss averaged 18.6, McCareins 13.8, in '03 Conway averaged 13.9, Moss 14.9, in '02 Coles avreaged 14.2, Moss 14.4, Chrebet 13.5. Thomas Jones talent wise doesn't compare to Brown or Williams but he had a better year just like Chad doesn't compare talent wise to favre but he had a better year. The only area on offense where Miami had us beat talent wise was at RB and our RBs played better, thew only area on offense where Miami had a better player(s) at their position was QB but the difference was so great that it made the difference in the div title.
Brady is BY FAR the best in the NFL, BY FAR. Change him and Peyton and Indy has at least 3 SBs this decade while NE would be lucky to have 1. Keep in mind NE was a sinking ship when Brady took over, they were getting worse every year and had started out 0-2 in 2001 until he took over and saved belichick's career. Belichick w/o Brady(113 games): 51-62, 1 playoff apperance, 1 playoff win Belichick w/ Brady(111 games): 87-24, 6 playof apps, 14 playoff wins, 3 SB titles, 4 AFC Titles. Tom Brady was the biggest reason for NE's success this decade.
I agree. Chad is a hard working, intelligent QB and a great teammate. But he has his limitations. We saw them on Sunday. If the Jets had kept Chad, I think that the Jets and Fish would have swapped positions this year. And we would have been the ones getting spanked by the Ravens in the 1st round. Is that what we wanted? No. I don't blame the Jets for taking a chance on Favre even though it looks like its going to blow up in their faces. They were gambling on greatness.
And you act like he has the '76 Bucs offense around him. The fins had significant upgrades on there o-line this year too, in fact I think they had more upgrades than we did. I'm not going to look it up but I know Long and Smiley were big upgrades. Saying he has no WR's to throw to is a big stretch too. Ginn, Bess and Fasano have been excellent this year. This isn't about the entire season. Chad did what he does every season when healthy, he beat the average -> below average defenses. This is about his inability to attack top tier defenses. I will name the QB you asked for as soon as you name the last time Chad was able to lead his offense to a decent amount of points against a top tier defense. Once again, this is exactly what many of us have been saying for years and surprise, surprise it happened again. I don't know how you try and pretend like it's not really happening or you cannot see this. There's always an excuse. I think he just completed another pass to Ed Reed BTW.
Wow, so you are saying the only difference is Brady? Are you really? You don't think NE improved their defense even a little after Brady became the QB? You don't think they improved their receivers? Really? How about their PK..they don't win a single SB without him and didn't win the only one they played without him. That doesn't matter though, right? It's all Brady....
How is a QB supposed to succeed when his OL doesn't open up holes for the ground game and doesn't protect him when he drops back to pass? His talent on O was alot closer to the '76 Bucs than the '07 Pats. Ginn and Bess as a starting duo is laughable, both are decent #3s at best at this point in their careers. Fasano is a decent TE but it's easier to cover a decent TE when you have no WRs than 2 good Wrs and a poor TE. When you say top tier you mean top 2-3 D's in the NFL? He's only played a few of those teams in his career. You act like he has played those types of Ds 5-6 times a year and that is where all our lossses come from. Good D's have the advantage over good Os. This isn't something new. Name me the QB who has had no running game, no time to throw, below average WRs against a top 5 D that has performed well? There was nothing surprising about yesterday. Miami doesn't match up well w/ Baltimore. If you can't run it and can't protect your QB how can you expect success? This is so silly. Chad would have had a much better chance w/ the talent we have and we may have had a bye this week anyway had we kept Chad. Ed reed has always had toruble picking off opposing QBs and that pass rush sure didn't help him.
nyjunc always simplifies football to being glorified golf -- it's one guy that matters and determines everything. Patriots win because of Brady, Jets lose because of Pennington, Jets not isn Superbowl because of Favre, Miami playing great because of Pennington, Miami playing bad because of Pennington ... oops, things are getting complicated now, better stop think if you want to be like nyjunc! I think the only time he's diverged from this is his fascination with the theory that Favre has never been good and that for the 16 years he was there Green Bay had the best record in the league despite having Favre play for them. Okie dokie!
Not the ONLY difference but the biggest difference. Brady won 3 SBs w/ Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens, Bethel Johnson and David Patten as his WRs. In 2000 when they went 5-11 NE had troy brown and terry Glenn as their starting WRs which is better than any duo Brady had during their SB runs. In '01 the same WRs that started 0-2 and couldn't score a TD against the Jets later went on to win a SB when Brady came in. I guess it was coincidental Troy brown had his best 2 years w/ Brady, it's also coincidental that Seattle gave up 1st rd picks for Branch based on his play w/ Brady and no one even knows Branch plays in the NFL anymore. It takes more than just a great QB to win but w/o Brady NE may not have a signle title this decade.
The Pats did win b/c of Brady and the Jets didn't make the playoffs b/c of Favre- where am I wrong? Miami won 11 games b/c of Chad, is there something wrong w/ that? You have nothing else in your weak arguments that you now have to make stuff up?
Well said. Watching Flacco over the weekend broke my heart. I know we had all the other needs, but I REALLY wanted us to go after that kid. He would have been the future QB we needed to build upon. Now we're still at Square One and without a coach even. Good riddance to Chad and Favre both.
Junc keeps talking about the missed FGS in the Pitts playoff game when the fact is that those were both in excess of 40 yards (i'm sure junc will correct me if that is wrong) and the success rate in that stadium for 40+ FGS was very, very low over the years. Chad should have gotten us closer. If we are making excuses for Chad lets be fair in regards to Brien as well (man that was tough to say......lol)
