What do you guys think? http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2009/01/01/2009-01-01_brett_favre_jets_might_be_stuck_with_eac.html
I agree that it is Mangini's fault for not sitting him. However, I am not sure what other pressures are present. Maybe Woody says that Favre can't sit or that Farve has final decision. It is very difficult to interperate these things unless you are behind the scenes and know all the influences.
The most reasonable, balanced summary of the situation I've read in a long time. None of this crap about saying things and calling them "obvious" because you don't really have all the answers & explanations after all -- like you see a lot of posters here do. It's amazing how many members there are on this board who "know," from a distance, 10x what the Jets GM, owner, and coaches do ...
it's tough on any coach to bench his starting qb when the team is just a touchdown down...and then when u know ur other qb's are equally bad it gets tougher.
He couldn't bench Favre no matter what. This is who they wanted, so that is who he gave. Pretty obvious the result we were going to get. I predicted this, but not the collapse. I said the Jets were at best a 9-7 team with Favre at his age in august, but at 8-3 i was starting to think that maybe they would make some noise in playoffs. I guess i was right unfortunately.
He says the Jets have no other option at QB. I'm sorry to sound like a typical uninformed fan who loves the backup QB, but why couldn't we at least consider Ratliffe to be the answer? I know all he has to show so far is some good preseason and training camp performances. But what did Brady or Romo or Cassel have to show before they came in and became top QB's? Bondy didn't even mention Ratliffe in the article.
The article pretty much sums up what I have posted here: 1. In order to get Favre to come to the Jets, Woody either implicitly or explicitly promised that it was an all or nothing. Win or lose we will go with Favre. 2. To add to the first premise, there wasn't any viable options for Mangini if Favre performed poorly. Clemens looked bad last year playing in relief and was out played by Ratliffe in preseason. 3. At the end of the season it was too late to bring in Ratliffe with no NFL experience and who probably took very few first team reps in practice. And if he did play well for a game what would you do with Favre for the rest of the season or next season? Since Favre left Green bay because he didn't want to be a backup and back to my first point that Woody had to promise him he would be the starter.... Well you could see how Mangini's hands would be tied. 4. I don't know if anyone remembers but Mangini didn't want Favre to begin with and had to be "convinced". I can sympathize with Mangini for not wanting a guy at the end of his career who has a habit for throwing picks and was brought in right before the season with no knowledge of the playbook. I think as Favre performance worsened it set up friction with Woody and Mangini. Like I told you so but I'm going to keep playing him so you can see why I was right. In the end Woody let go Mangini because of this rift. Mangini and Favre approach to the game was at odds with each other from day one. Mangini is a control freak with a fanatic's attention to detail, while Favre on the other hand is a gun slinger who strengths are improvisation and emotion. 5. My take on what went wrong with Favre was that he wore out mentally. Going back to the circus at Greenbay with him trying to get his job back, then relocating to the Jets 2 weeks before the season started, having to learn the playbook as he played, struggling to prove to everyone he wasn't washed up, and dealing with the pressure of the high expectations the Jets had put on him. I just think the cumulative effect was that tired and unemotional look on his face we saw in the post game interviews. Favre thrives when he is relaxed and having fun he looked like neither was the case towards the end of the season. 6. Mangini wasn't fired because he didn't win enough games it was how the team lost. Getting out worked by lesser opponents meant he couldn't inspire the team which points back to his lack of people skills. A one or two game let down is normal in the NFL but a five game slide of awful performances is trend that points to a fundamental problem with a team's leadership. Down the stretch you felt there was no major adjustments being made and they kept playing and losing for the same reasons. No pass rush, no emotion, little offense, and poor play at the QB position. 7. Woody must think that if Favre gets normal prep to a new season without all the distractions of this year he will play much better. Combine that with a coach who has a passion for the game and can work with Favre style of play that they will have a good season next year.
If Favre bails, I say go with Bretty Ratliff. What do we have to lose? We could find our Tyler Thigpen. Clemens clearly doesn't have the goods.
A little perspective, if I may. I still can't start a thread because I don't have 50 posts. That in of itself is ridiculous, but par for the course around here. Favre struggles are well documented. But, it's funny how some easily dismiss all the factors that led to the late season collapse. First of all, I diddn't hear a peep when we were 8-3. Is there anyone on the team that played better in the last 5 games then in the previous 11? The offensive line was not blowing people off the ball like they were earilier in the year. Thomas Jones' production fell off. While Washington was aruguably better. He didn't have the same impact in the return game, where he was putting us a great field positon most of the time. He even had a couple of negative returns in my mind that should have been caught and led to possessions being taking over inside the 5 yard line. The run defense all but disappeared. Jenkins who was rotated out far more often was hardly effective. The pass rush was all but non existant, while the coverage units struggles mightily. Lowery and Law were terrible after the New England game. And Elam was probably the weakest link in coverage overall. They have a number of missed interceptions that went right off their hands that could have turned momentum in games. Mangini's curious game calls and decisions did not help either. Here's a few instances of plays that led to the demise in each of the three losses preceding the Miami game (That game really had no bearing as it played it out) VS Denver, twice on 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1, Mangini or Schottenheimer went shotgun and empty backfield. Two punts aren't fielded by Washington that end up being downed at the 3 and 1 yard lines respectively. While the Jets are down a score and driving with the no huddle offense, Shanahan has their guys faking an injury on three consecutive plays to stall a drive. Early in the 4th quarter down a score, Cotchery drops a beautiful pass on the Denver 3 yard line on 4th and 3. Later in the quarter with 6:00 to go, Coles drops a WR Screen with daylight ahead of him on 3rd and 4. In San Francisco after Keller dropping a 3rd and 2, Mangini decides to punt on 4th from the SF 38! (This was after a botched onside kick attempt by SF, where you're playing with house money and he punts!) Third and 1, Jones is stuffed for no gain at mid field. Smith and Washinton botch a kickoff return reverse that puts the ball on the Jet 1 yard line. In Seattle on the opening drive with momentum in our favor down to the 3 yard line, Mangini opts to kick a FG in a playoff type game. Second drive of the game moving the ball, drive is stalled by offensive holding call and ineligible player down field. Next drive on a critical 3rd and 1, Favre finds Baker for the first down it is called back for illegal formation ( Coles covers up TE, putting 8 on the line) Down 10-3 from the Seattle 30, Favre scrambles and dumps to Franks who drops a sure first down. Delay of game penalty wipes out a FG to make 10-6. Mangini then punts instead of attempting a 50 yarder, though Feely just hit from 45. Still down 10-3, Sea DE is left unblocked sending Favre to sack on 3rd and 7. Finally with 3 timeouts left and over 2 minutes on the clock, Mangini decides to go for it on 4th down from his own 25. Defying most odds but Favre makes his best pass of the day to Coles for a possible 40 yard completion and maybe TD, but he does what Coles does tries to catch it with his body instead of his hands and allows the defender to knock it away. Say what you will about Favre's performance late in the season, but overall it tends to come up real close with the other players on the team that were playing way over confident after the Tennessee game. And it showed in every facet of the game and with every player with no exceptions. That is why the Jets the missed the playoffs. Not because of the conceded point of inconsistent play from the quarterback position. All those guys that are talking crap right now should take a hard look in the mirror first, because every one of them is responsible and accountable. The Jets did the right thing by cutting loose the coach, as he is ultimatley responsible for the product on the field.
Yeah, that's a great idea. NOT! Look, I liked the way Ratliff looked in the preseason too. If it was up to me? I would go for your plan. But I am not the current Jets owner who has to sell PSLs and season tickets and the rest of it. So, maybe some of us can be a bit more realistic than turnng the Jets into a rebuilding team (not that I think that they shouldn't do that, it's just that the "New Stadium" mentality won't allow for it.
Why the *heck* do you think it's ridiculous that you can't begin a new thread until you've posted a few times here???? From the vapidness of your post, I'm thinking that maybe the Webmaster should extend that rule to 500 posts.
This is the best summary I've seen so far. Nice job. Yes Farve struggled down the stretch, but so did the whole damn team. As stunned as I was when it happened, firing the coach was the right thing to do. Call it lack of experience or what ever, he had no answers for the slide at the end and he cost us a rare opportunity to make a playoff run. I believe he may still grow into a good coach, he definitely had his positives, but after that collapse a change had to happen. Now we need to finish the job and get a coach who is ready to take us to the next level now. The talent is there (barring how the QB situation plays out) and the time is now.
That's correct. There isn't any coach in the NFL who would have benched Favre. Not if he had 40 picks. He was the best chance to win. People here are complete fools.
Your right. Mangini had to play Farve and whoever the coach is next year has to play him if he decides to come back. Cowher and Shannahan know what their dealing with that is why they told us no thanks. The politics of the game dictate that Farve must play as long as he is a Jet. Only injury or retirement can get him from under center.
Very good post. I've concluded that this entire mess is the fault of...Kellen Clemens, and whoever decided to draft him. If he showed the skills to be the heir apparent, as he was intended to be, they never would have gotten Favre. When it became obvious to the team in mini-camp and early TC that he could not be an effective starter, they had to go out and get a QB, since they had already written off Pennington. If he had stepped up and into the starting role, this would have been his team to lead.
Fair enough, I think I'm up to 37 or something like that. I try to use the quality vs quantity method, but now that I think about it, to limit trolling, it makes sense.
Rookie QBs often never are able to perform like they did in college at the NFL level. Because its such a crap shoot teams don't like to draft them in the first round unless they're desperate. I agree with you that Clemens not panning out forced the Jets to acquire Favre. Pennington also had to go because he didn't have the arm to throw deep routes. It just happened that a better coach for the Dolphins figured out a way to use Chad. We got to see the old Chad Pennington today against the Ravens in the playoffs. I bet ppl here have changed their tune about how we made a mistake trading him.
AZpackjetfan, you are not allowed to post intelligent, well put together posts that include stats or actual information that may make it seem like the entire downfall of the organization isn't Favre's fault on this message board. You may do it for Mangini, Coles, Law, Franks, or even Baker because there are other reasons they didn't succeed besides themselves. The same is not true for Favre. You also may defend Pennington even minutes after throwing his fourth int of the game, because his interceptions are the dolphins fault not his, unlike Favre. Even if you are able to show any type of proof statistically or even point out certain events that took place during certain games that may take some blame off his shoulders for the collapse of this team in the last 5 games, stop typing, take a breath, and remember that even if someone dropped a pass, it's probably because of something Favre did four games ago that is just now catching up to him, and has nothing to do with the reciever. Please keep this is mind for all further posts. Thank you.
