See, I don't think he's going to pitch poorly in the first place, so it's sort of moot to me. However, even if he doesn't pitch "to expectations" he'll still pitch well enough to get what he wants on the open market, closer to home. The only way I really see him opting out is if he pitches ridiculously well, and has good reason to believe he can get enough out of a California team to make it worthwhile to jump ship. I understand there is a really big negative side to it. There always is with a player's option. However, the way I see it playing out, I can't see it hurting the Yankees in the end. Things would have to go train-wreck wrong, and in that case, is it really going to matter? I think you're spot on though about the posturing. More than likely this was added thanks to Amber.
Considering that only the Yankees were willing to go this high with this contract? I seriously doubt that he will ever approach this kind of money if he didn't pitch well. Unless the market is going to get stupid again and after this economy I doubt it would happen so quickly, if he pitches poorly he will be stuck in pinstripes. Now I too doubt he would pitch that poor.
Actually, I never read that as I was out last night. Hmmm..let's see. You haven't refuted anything lately. You have just reduced yourself to nothing more than a name caller. On what grounds was I right on last year? Well, Giaradi said no more than 10 minutes ago on YES that Hughes is not part of the Yankees plans this year. I don't know how else you could talk about that deal. And you are right that wanting Santana IS contrary to my opinion on long contracts for pitchers but I have never seen anything about him and neither have you that would indicate he can't last 6 years. Now you have a fat slob instead who has to last 7 years to be worth that money. Wanna bet he doesn't happen? Wanna bet he doesn't come close? And your argument about Pedro is ridiculous. He was never worth his contract and I don't even know what it was. Whatever it was he was expected to last all year, every year, and I doubt he did so more than once or twice in that time.
You are assuming he can still pitch and is still healthy after 3 years. That's the mistake you people always make. here is the likely outcome. He weighs 340 pounds, can barely walk or bend over and is perfectly happy to sit home or in tampa for the last 4 years collecting 23 million a year from NY. Sound familiar? Only the dollars are different.
I'm so torn. I hope Don's right, but I just don't buy into it. Can we at least set parameters for correctness here? Like, if he's healthy and throws 200 innings next year but he's 14-10 with 4.50 era, can we agree that Itoldyouso doesn't apply? That is to say, general middle of the road success and breaking down from fatness aren't the same thing.
So are you telling me that you want me to go back and find the posts where your "arguments" were not only refuted but destroyed? Because I can. Just say the word. I would be happy to list each and every one of them (with links to their original context). You have two top prospects, cost-controlled. And you want to judge them at age 22. I don't know if I want to live in a world where you call that "being right." Except for the questionable MRI and decreased velocity that was part of the reason the Yanks backed out, right? His average FB has dropped 2mph in the past two seasons. That doesn't mean he won't be good. But potential arm issues and a decrease in velocity isn't something that I'm feeling good about long term, either. By the way, do you know that Santana had knee surgery this October? Actually, he really only has to be good for the first three years. And you don't really know how value is extracted from a contract, do you? Do you know how GMs value players? Do you know why some players get more money than others? Of course, you conveniently ignore the fact that Sabathia has been one of the most durable pitchers in the game since 2001. Holy shit, he actually said it! He said Pedro wasn't worth his contract with the Red Sox! The man who won the Cy Young twice, finished second once, and third once in six years wasn't worth the six-year/$75 million Boston gave him. :rofl::rofl::rofl: I have to believe you're not this dumb, dude... you HAVE to just be doing this out of stubbornness. Have to. And, of course, had you not chosen to ignore those earlier posts, you might remember that Pedro pitched 200 innings four times during the life of that contract... well, three if you're a stickler and say that 199 1/3 doesn't count. The other two years were 187 innings 116 (the one year he was out with a serious injury).
He has replaced Mussina's 20 wins. In other words we are paying 160 million bucks for no improvement at all. The rotation wasn't all that competent last year, was it? I can't believe how many blind people are here. They will probably have to spend at least another 100 million or more to become competent.
What part of he was suppose to be healthy all year, every year, doesn't your simple mind understand? You're such a fool you probably believe the Yankees will be happy to pat Sabathia 160 million for 3 or 4 years too. Oh, and you see no problem at all with going from 250 to 290 pounds in 2 years, do you? I'm sure you see no problem if he is 340 or 350 either, right? Do you even realize what you say?
Number 1 Sabathia is 28 yrs old, Mussina is 39. Sabathia is gonna pitch more innings and go deeper in game, which will help our pen. So yeah Mussina was great last year, but CC is an improvement. We also didn't have Wang for half the season ,which people seem to forget. He won 19 games in 06 and 07 and was 8-2 before he got hurt.
Yeah but we didn't have Wang (15-20 wins) for 90% of the season. Joba was hurt for a chunk and in the pen for the start.. So if we add two good starters to go along with healthy Wang & Joba it's essentially a different rotation then last year... I'm willing to give the last spot to whoever performs the best out of Hughes/Pettitte/randoms. Now tell me why I'm wrong Donnie...
Ok, so your saying if anyone gets hurt ever then they are not worth giving a contract? EVERYONE GETS HURT, especially pitchers where they put thier arm through hell every night they step on the mound. Thats why you need 6 to 7 major league ready starters, someone always gets hurt. If CC won the yankees the world series next year and then proceeded to get hurt for the next 6 i would be happy, and so would yankees ownership, do you know how much money they would make if CC put the yanks on his back like he did to the brewers last year?
Yes, that's what I'm saying. How many world series did he win? How many playoff games did he win? When you pay a top pitcher whatever you pay them you expect them to be there when it counts. And I know pitchers get hurt, that's why I find it ridiculous to give anyone a contract like the Yankees are giving Sabathia. Especially a fat slob who would rather be home than in NY.
I think this is comical.... the Yankees outbid themselves for a guy who is a twinkee away from 300 lbs. Be prepared for Carl Pavano part duex Yankee fans. I won't expect it this year but we'll check this board in 2010 when the Yankees are spending 23 million on a guy making multiple DL trips. There is a reason nobody other then the Brewers made an offer...... I can't even begin to imagine what this board is going to look like should fatty have an April like he did last year.
1st off Wang went on the DL when in June? That's like 40% of the season he played. You are also still assuming Joba can pitch a full season which he still hasn't done and your ignoring that he likely went to the DL because of his violent throwing motion. Yankee fans last year were all assuming Kennedy and Hughes would step right in and be perenial All Stars and that didn't pan out to well. You know what you have in Sabathia and Wang but everything else including Joba winning 20 games is a mystery.
I understand the words. I just can't believe anyone would actually be dumb enough to judge a pitcher's worth by number of starts and number of starts only. Are you that dumb, Don? You don't actually consider making 33 mediocre starts per year to be more valuable to a team than 29 ridiculously good ones, do you? Sense, Don. Make some, please. Were you molested by a fat man as a child? Did you walk in on your mom schtupping a portly postman? Because this is a pretty isolated and irrational point to harp on over and over. I see his weight as a potential problem, yes. However, I don't see it as a dealbreaking concern considering his age, his frame, his mechanics, his past durability, and the precedent of seeing several other very large pitchers with good mechanics remain healthy into their mid- to late- thirties. I would say AJ Burnett is a much greater injury risk than Sabathia over the life of their respective contracts. These are all things that have been pointed out to you. Repeatedly. But you just ignore them and repeat your rant. Now, for the record, I would like you to please notice that I addressed each of your points specifically (where I could decipher what you were saying, that is). Will you try to refute mine in turn? Or will you spout some nonsense?
