With all of this said who would you rather have as our Qb with the wind whipping for the last game of the year at the Meadowlands with the division on the line? Chad or Farve?
My take? The Jets better get their shit together and win the division because I'm not sure if I can take: a) Patriots winning the division with Matt Cassel or b) Dolphins winning the division with Chad Pennington. Both of those thoughts just make me feel sick.
Don't get me started.... I'm not disappointed in Favre. I'm upset that the coaching staff doesn't seem to have a clue how to use him. As pointed out earlier,they have done nothing to take advantage of his talents. It's the same "look-downfield and check-it down" mentality that they had with Chad. Throw the ball downfield dammit!!! Also Brian Schottenheimer is not doing anything to put the receivers in positions for success. Call a slant or down and out...something diferent than run and curl. Also the defense seems to be playing soft. How many times did Isaac Bruce beat whoever was "guarding" him on slants. It was terrible. It's teams haver no fear of running in the middle, because the Jets don't have a safety who can lay the wood..much less cover anything. The D-line looks like last year model. No push from the ends. I know they drafted Gholston for that task, but he's been a disappointment. What happened to Calvin Pace? I'll be honest...if the goal is to make the playoffs just to lose in the firsty round, I'd rather just not. Right now..this team has one and done written all over it.
Chad is not tearing it up in Miami so much as the Miami Dolphins running attack and defense are winning games, and Chad was usually good at avoiding at throwing the stupid, game-losing INT (until last season, that is!)... Anyhow, Chad was going to be the second-string QB in NYC behind Clemens, so Favre was an upgrade. The Jets are still in first place in the division. It's too soon to give up on the season.
There are some people who just do not understand that there is a very very good chance that all we are going to get from Favre is a single season. There is no guarantee this guy is going to be back next year. I know its all hindsight, but in retrospect this looks like a bad personnel move. He was supposed to have blown Chad away statswise.......and clearly he hasnt. And dont give me that crap about some intangible, unmeasureable benefit he brings to the team. We've looked like s--t the past 2 weeks at a point in the season where we are supposed to take control of our own destiny. Granted I sound fanatical about the draft pick, but a 2nd rounder was used to get David Harris in 2007 & it was used in 2008 to move up & get Dustin Keller. It was basically an all or nothing shot. This is not a pro-Chad stance. Its a SCHOTTY couldnt use John Elway if he stepped back in time position.
i would love to have Favre back next season, but i don't think it will happen. i just hope we don't spend the next 3-4 years trying to find a suitable QB.
I'm embrassed to call myself a Jet Fan. #1 With Mangaini and SUtton you don't know what coach your getting. They are very inconsistent. One week they look great and have it all figured out the next week they look piss poor. The defense is good at stopping the run but thats it. There is no pass rush there aren't any DBs that are worth keeping anymore other then Revis. Rhodes has been invisible all season long. Lowery is a rookie and inconsisent. Gholston is a bust like Robertson. On Offense they've turned a gun slinnger into a Chad Pennington. I wasd against the Favre trade from the very beginning thinking we had something in Kellen. Kellen's biggest problem last year was the O-line stunk. Favre is cabable of throwing down the field but aren't. The problem is the WRs aren't as good as we think they are. We need guys that are big, physical and strong who get seperation off the line of scrimmage. We need basically a T.O. or a Calvin Johnson type. Coles at this point is 1 hit away from retirement. Cotchery is great what he does going over the middle and getting YAC. Dustin Keller is a beast need to get him the ball more often down the seem. Hes a WR in a TE body and is improving as a blocker. Thomas Jones is having a great season but not getting the ball enough in the "easy games."
Being new to the board, I wanted to weigh in on this. As a Green Bay fan and having seen all 270+ starts from Favre, I wonder what kind of offense the Jets are running lately. I think this dink and dunk or just send Coles and Cotchery on double go's is not utilizing Favre for his strengths. The screen pass is nice once in a while. Favre executes it very well. He does a good job of holding the LB and Safteties. But, in order to be more successful now, the playbook has to open up. They need to run more dig routes, crossing patterns, slants, comebacks. One thing that seems apparent to me is that the Jets receivers aren't as good as the Packers receievers in creating separation. Favre has never been great at throwing the deep ball. But 10 to 20 yards he is among the best. Be nice to see Shottenheimer call more of those plays. Throw the ball downfield without throwing the 50 yards bombs. Laverneus Coles also needs to start getting open and running good routes. Instead of complaining that Keller was getting all the looks. He should have been relieved that the defense was starting to account for Dustin. That should have gotten better matchups for Coles. But, if he doesn't get the ball early. He shows little effort of trying to run crisp routes and get open. Favre will find him, if he gets open. Plus, when he does throw the ball to Coles in traffic, Coles does little to protect his QB. I know that the Jets got nervous that Favre was throwing too many interceptions early in the year and scaled back the playbook. but that was a mistake. Most of those INT's came from not being on the same page as the receiver from the pre-snap look. That will take time. But, it was improving in the Buffalo, NE, and Tenn games. Then, all of the sudden it got too conservative. Teams are looking for those dink and dunk passes and it's not working. And 8 or nine or the INT's were all coming from up the sideline throw trying to beat the cover-2. Cut that play out, fine. But, open up the offense Schotty, or we are soon going to be looking in on the playoffs and not competing in January. You got Favre to throw the ball and make plays, stop handcuffing him with this dink and dunk crap.
Here's your problem: I've been shooting down delusional Chad sunshine since 2005 on this board so you just walked into a blindside with those stats. Your QB ranks 9th in the AFC in TD's thrown and the Dolphins offense ranks 11th in the AFC in points scored and you want to tell me that he's a huge factor in the Fins being a decent team this year? He's a below average QB in terms of the effect he has on the game and he's incapable of leading the Dolphins to a win against a superior team. The Dolphins have played five games this year against teams that had a clear talent advantage against them going into the game: Jets, Arizona, New England x2 and Baltimore. They're 1-4 in those 5 games. They've played 5 games where the talent advantage (given hindsight and how the teams have played overall this year) didn't belong to either team: San Diego (fallen far this year), Houston, Buffalo x 2 and Denver. They're 4-1 in those games. Then they've played 3 sadsacks who have had trouble beating teams this year: Oakland, Seattle and St. Louis and they're 3-0 in those games. That's Chad's MO and has been since the first injury in 2003: lose to the good teams with an occasional surprise, beat the equal talent level teams, and destroy the trash. That's why the Jets were on a treadmill with him after their talent level declined, and it's why the Dolphins aren't going to get anything special out of him either. It's easy to complete a 6 yard pass on 3rd and 11. That's Chad's specialty. It's hard to throw a TD pass in the red zone. That's his weakness. Good luck with that moving forward. BTW, completion percentage is way over-rated in the rating formula for passer rating, a throwback to the days when it was much harder to actualy complete a pass. I worked out a very strong approximation of the passer rating about 30 years ago before it was public knowledge and the weights on the 4 key statistics if you used a linear regression to find them were something like this: Completion percentage x .87 + Yards Per Attempt x 4.25 + TD Pct x 3.3 - Int Pct x 4.125. The formula badly over-rates the thing that Chad is best at: completing passes and under-rates the thing he is worst at: throwing TD's. He's the perfect example of why you have to look beyond any formulaic representation of a phenomenon to the actual results before you validate the event. Chad is at his best when you look at him solely through completion percentage and QB rating and at his worst when you lok at how many points his teams actually score. He's a well below average NFL QB in that regards.
Which makes him the perfect QB for our system and the Playoffs. This has been our argument for the longest and the fact that they are asking Favre to run the system like Chad did is even more fuel to the fire. He's accurate, efficient and has heart. That my friend is a Solid NFL QB. I'm not going to just throw Favre under the bus here truth is he's done his fair share of helping us win games and most of the losses he's been avg. but the CS has been atrocious which is exactly what they did w/ Chad. Care to show our stats w/ Favre vs....... oh wait, we've lost to Oakland, Denver, SD and SF and barely beat KC. and guess who was god awful in ALL of those games?
the head coach, and the two coordinators are even worse than those two players. even if you give shotty a pass, there is no way i give the other two any. when was the last time you saw magini or sutton huddled with the defense making in-game adjustments on the field? i have seen more movement out of the statue of liberty. :shit:
So how exactly are you going to shoot down FO's formula which doesn't place as much emphasis solely on comp. and and traditional "passer rating". FWIW, Chad is #8 and has 5 QBs who are rated lower than he is with higher completion %s: Brett Favre, Jeff Garcia, Matt Schaub, Trent Edwards, Sage Rosenfails. http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb And also I'm having a little trouble understanding what you're trying to allude to with us losing those games with Chad. When we win it's because our opponents suck as Chad is just good at beating trash and when we lose it's because Chad can't carry a team? So the loss is squarely on Chad and no one else? He's not Marino, we know this. But he's an above average quarterback and saying he doesn't have a great effect on our season is silly when you look at who we had before Chad(McClown, Beck, Henne). He's easily the best QB we've had since Marino. If you're talking about lights-out HOF Qbs then yes that's not Chad, but there are what 3 in the league right now and 1 is out for the year.
Chad has never been able to deal with a talent deficit on one of his teams. He's never been able to deal with a really talented defense on the other side of the ball. He's never been able to deal with a really aggressive physical opponent. You may think that you have a real leader there, but from experience I'll tell you that when the shit hits the fan you're going to find Chad splattered with more of it than anybody else on the team. He's really good at leading a team down a rathole in the big game with a lousy performance. Just wait and see. BTW, if you put him at the helm of a really good team with a lot of talent on both sides of the ball there's no reason he couldn't win a Super Bowl. But that'd be the talent level on the team doing that, not Chad. The Dolphins have scored 269 points in 13 games. That puts them squarely on Chad's career average of 20 pts a game. NFL teams on average score 22 pts a game (actually 21.6), that makes Chad's career about 5% below average in doing the thing that QB's are paid to do: put points on the board. You can't get around that fact. Chad is like the guy in the office meetings who always looks good in the meeting and then you think back on what he actually contributed and realize it was almost all image and no results.
holy fuck another thread with chad in it, i wish he woulda went to the vikings or some shit maybe i would hear less about him.
We're #30 against the pass, the best that has been said about our OC is that he frequently "out-thinks himself", and at this point, despite the fact that I still like Mangini and don't want to see him get fired, I'm beginning to question exactly what he does as a head coach for this team. That being said, the only thing that I think would be different about this team without Brett Favre than its current state is that the starting QB would have a few less INTS and the team would have a few less wins. Aside from that, the problem goes well beyond the "Rent-A-QB" we traded with the Packers to acquire. When we're playing well, Favre is good, and when we're playing like sh*t, Favre looks terrible. The whole team is either consistantly bad or consistantly good. At this point, I'm willing to believe it's more than one man that is the problem, we're just going to pay too much (2nd rounder at least) for one player if we wind up making the playoffs without a deep (AFC title game at least) run. The problems are Sutton (when teams realize they can pass on us), Schottenheimer (when he thinks he is clever), and Mangini (what the fuck does he do with this team?!?!?!), Favre is just a small variable of the equation.
We don't know Clemens is horrible, remember he played last year behind no OL and no running game. Chad looked awful last year too, no QB would have looked good behind that OL. I don't know if KC will be good or not but I'm not going to base everything off of last year. :rofl: Actually 10-3 or 9-4 is more like it. The winds were whipping in January of '03 when we beat Indy 41-0. Since 1998: Favre: 3-6 Chad: 2-3 Chad played in the much tougher conference and still has a better postseason win % since 1998. Chad was going to start here as long as he was healthy. Our O w/ Favre and a better running game, better WRs and better overall talent is only averaging 23 PPG. That's just a FG better than an O w/ half our talent and a QB that is worse according to you. This also doesn't factor in our great STs or garbage time points. Leon is averaging 10.7 per punt return, the dolphin dup of Bess & Ginn? 9 yards. Our Punt cover team is allowing 7.8 per return, Miami's is allowing 14 yards per return. Leon is averaging 27.5 per KR, the dolphin duo is averaging 20.8. Our coverage unit is allowing 21.2 per return, Miami is allowing 25.5 per return. Their D has actually forced opponents to punt as Miami opponents have punted 10 more times than our opponents. To recap: -The Jets have MUCH more talent around Fvare -The Jets O is only averaging 3 more PPG despite all that talent which includes the QB who is supposed to be so much better than Chad. -Our running back duo averages 4.8 per carry, Miami's duo averages 4.15 so we have the better running game. -Chad's top WR now is Ted Ginn, Favre has Coles & Cotchery. -Chad has David Martin & Anthony Fasano at TE, Favre has Keller. -The Jets STs is MUCH better giving our O better FP consistently. It's not even close, you can give me all the meaningless fantasy #s you want but Chad has been MUCH better than Favre this year and we'd be better w/ him.
