There you go. I never said that Moss wasn't more talented, didn't have better physical attributes, or anything like it. But no matter the QB throwing to him, be it Brady, Cassel, or the scrubs he caught passes from in Miami, the guy gives 1000% effort, his head is always in the game, and that makes him more dangerous to us. In the first Pats game, they carved us up with Welker while Moss ran half-assed jog patterns wondering if he'd make any of his incentives with this scrub nobody QB throwing ducks to him. Welker earns every dime of his paycheck every weekend. I hate him so much. When he catches a pass behind the LOS, he'll break 2-3 tackles fighting for yardage. And he's 0-60 in no time flat in those situations, too. Moss has barely done anything against us all year, aside from that damned TD at the end of the game. That is such a waste of talent. If he gave even 3/4's the effort that Welker did, he would consistently be the most dangerous weapon in the NFL. But he doesn't. And anybody that thinks Coles or Cotch can approach Welker's level of play right now is confused about what they see on TV.
I'm curious if any other Jets fans here think Welker is better than Coles and Cotch. Not that I'd disagree with them but people here seem to place Coles and Cotch and pretty high level as far as WR's go so I'm just curious..
I love both of them. Coles is all heart and has great concentration. That sideline catch in the first quarter on Thursday was a thing of beauty. Without the concussion problems and his toe, I think there might be an argument to be made, but he isn't what he used to be. He's a great Jet, though, I've criticized him before for some of his behavior but he never brings it to the field. A consummate professional on Sunday. Cotch has great hands, good quickness and he plays bigger than his size. He lacks top-end speed in a lot of situations, but he is a very clutch player, not unlike Coles. And he plays through injuries a lot of players would sit out for, also not unlike Coles. I was so happy to see him get playing time when Mangini first got here because he didn't get a lot under Herm even though he showed a lot of talent with the limited chances he got. All of that said, there no way either of them is as good as Welker has played even in his days with Miami, in my opinion.
I agree with pretty much all of this, or put another way, if Welker had 3/4ths the talent Moss did, he'd be clear and away the #1 WR in the NFL, or at least give Boldin a run for his money. Actually screw it, if he had the talent of Boldin he'd be like Boldin.
I think Welker is more one dimensional than either Coles or Cotchery but he executes that ONE dimension nearly perfectly. I think he also is helped a lot by playing with Moss (who teams either roll zone coverage to or straight up double cover on every suspected passing down), although he was very solid in Miami. (Although no where near as productive as he has been for the Pats) It's close. I would probably agree that Welker is a more dominant player than either Coles or Cotchery, yet I would have a lot of trouble seeing him as being a legitimate number one receiver (If that makes any sense). But again, as a slot receiver, he is just SO dominant.
We may not have played prevent all game but we did play PREVENT THE TD in the red zone many times. The TD that tied the game at 24 to Watson where Cassell musta had 12 seconds to pass and that last play to Moss. Both times we rushed 3 men and and let the QB sit back there all day. You can't expect your 2ndary to cover for 8+ seconds. This can not happen on Sunday.
Law couldn't have covered Moss any better without drawing a flag. Great pass, great catch. That's all it was.
How do you see him as one-dimensional? I think his size holds him back, but I see few other flaws in his game. Great hands, great concentration, great at run-blocking when it calls for it, very quick and very fast, runs near-perfect routes... I just hate him.
There is a place for the prevent, but once they cross midfield, you gotta start bringing some pressure.
We only played prevent on that last pats drive when they scored to tie it up. The drive before that we got killer pressure on cassel and forced a three and out. There is no freaking way we played prevent any other time in that game. The funny thing is if the Jets stop them on that last drive everybody would be praising Mangini for the D but they scored and all hell broke loose with the whole prevent thing. It's a toss up if they apply pressure they could stop the pats just like they did the previous drive or they could give up a big play and get the crowd even more fired up. The pats just made good plays on that final drive and did not panic. I hate the F'in pats but it is what it is. Lost in all this is that the Jets are undefeated on the road in the division and that is AWESOME!:beer:
The Patriots are the perfect team for an inexperienced QB; good O-Line, safety nets in Welker, Faulk, and Watson, and a damn good deep threat in Randy Moss... To say Moss is better than Welker is idiocy; apples and oranges. Moss = Big deep threat Welker = Smaller, quicker, short to medium yardage receiver We would have gotten shat on had it not been for a couple of overthrown passes by Cassel. The game ending in a win was a combo of a couple of big breaks, some AWESOME clutch playing, and a winning team attitude.
A prevent defense is something we should never ever do, especially considering how slow our linebackers are in pass coverage. Despite his pedophile-sounding voice, Collinsworth is one of the better announcers out there and was spot on here,
That was my impression as well. I hate Collinsworth on the post game show and was shocked at how good he was calling the game. Why he doesn't do so consistently is kind of a head scratcher to be honest.
Oh, I totally agree. What I mean is that because of his lack of size or hops, he would have a tough time being a primary receiver (or being a guy who lines up opposite the primary receiver) who lines up on the outside of formations and runs go routes, deep-outs, deep flags, and deep posts on a consistent basis. I think his lack of height makes him a much better fit as a slot receiver. (That is not an insult or knock, I think he may be the most dominant slot receiver I have ever seen) He's a superior route runner who kills teams on deep crosses (standard crossing patterns 15 yards plus deep), intermediate crosses, shallow crosses, drags, short outs, intermediate outs, quick slants, deep slants, curls, digs/hitches, and skinny posts. He's the ultimate slot receiver. He's wayne Chrebet with twice the speed and quickness. He's a great player, and in my opinion, a top 5 receiver in the NFL. He's awesome. And I hate him as well . . .
Patriots last year wouldn't have made it to the super bowl without Moss, no question. Without Welker, well they probably would've made it anyways, just not with their perfect 16-0 record.
id agree with that. because moss played his ass off with brady. he was getting perfect deep balls thrown too him all the time and that was his motivation. this year the qb talent dropped off and he isnt getting his big plays anymore. so he is giving up and not putting in the effort he did last year. welker gives his all every game all game.
Well Moss needs a QB who can throw a deep ball. that's where Moss can really show off the talented all-pro WR that he is. Unfortunately for him, Cassel throws one of the worst deep balls of any starting QB in the league and that really limits what Moss is gonna do. Maybe Moss needs to adjust his game to what his QB is able to do, but with the right QB that would never matter..
Welker plays harder, but he's basically a substitute running game in the Pats offense last year. Alot of quick passes and screens to get him open with blockers to gain yards after the catch. He's more consistent than other WR's, which isn't a knock. After all, consistency is the difference between the greats and the has beens. Still, Coles and Cotchery would kill if they were used like Welker, especially Coes. Meanwhile, Wes Welker probably never makes a catch like Cotchery made last week for like 50 yards. Nor does he blow up like Coles does/can for the big play downfield. Welker is the best slot WR in the game, and a very good returner, but better than Coles and Cotchery? Hellllll no. Eh...maybe the current Coles.
I wouldn't rate him top 5. I leave that open for primary receivers, not slot receivers. But like you and others said he's probably the best at what he does as a slot receiver. Can't argue that.
