Was the Rebuild a Last-Minute Decision?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by NCJetsfan, Jun 9, 2017.

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How Do You Think the Complete Rebuild Came About This Season?

Poll closed Jun 20, 2017.
  1. The plan all along was to go with the complete rebuild in the 3rd season

    11.1%
  2. The plan for the team's future changed during last season & they decided to go w/youth

    27.8%
  3. The plan changed in 2017 when they couldn't sign a good FA QB & Pettyburg showed little progress

    11.1%
  4. Mac convinced Woody that the complete rebuild was necessary during this off season

    38.9%
  5. We're lucky that they had little cap space to bring in new FAs & that forced the change

    11.1%
  6. This is plain and simple a tank job to get Darnold, Allen or another QB in the 2018 draft

    5.6%
  7. I don't think they have a long term plan. They're winging it by the seat of their pants

    11.1%
  8. Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Based on the moves of this week and articles today in the Star Ledger and Post regarding the Jets' interest in Jay Cutler, suggests that it may have been.

    http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2017/06/how_close_did_jay_cutler_come_to_signing_with_jets.html

    http://nypost.com/2017/06/09/how-close-jay-cutler-was-to-becoming-jets-quarterback/

    According to those articles, the Jets called Cutler as soon as he was released to express interest, but he declined to come and visit immediately because he didn't want to jump right into anything. He did have a visit scheduled, but McCown visited first and signed the next day. He said that the Jets didn't indicate whether they definitely were going to offer him a contract, but I'll bet they would have if they could have fit him under the cap. I can just see Woody's eyes light up.

    While I'd like to think that the Jets' interest was just doing due diligence, and that "the plan" for this season was to begin a complete rebuild, I don't. I think that the odds are that Woody wanted to continue with the status quo.

    Does anyone thing that we'd have been going with a youth movement and complete rebuild if Jay Cutler was our QB? I sure don't.

    We are very fortunate that we didn't wind up with Cutler as our QB, because there would probably have been no youth movement, no complete rebuild, but instead more of the same "competitive rebuild" nonsense, and well, because we'd have had Jay Cutler as our QB.

    I think that could be part of the reason why Harris wasn't released immediately following the season. Of course we may never know, but I think it probably took Mac some time to convince Woody to go with the complete rebuild/youth movement. He may have even had to use all the media reports saying how bad the Jets would be, and the fact that McCown was the best QB they could sign in order to get Woody to buy in. I think they may also have kept Harris as an insurance policy in case they couldn't get another ILB in FA or the draft. Then after the team added Davis, Harris wasn't needed as much since they were rebuilding, and they could gain cap space for next year.

    They couldn't do anything with Decker until he was healthy, and may have planned to trade or release him all along, but if Jay Cutler was our QB, I doubt that Decker would have gone anywhere.

    I never thought I'd wind up saying this, but we may owe Jay Cutler a huge debt of gratitude. The whole course of the team's history may have changed for the better because he didn't rush to sign here.
     
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  2. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

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    At least Cutler (or other vet not named McCown) would have given the Jets hope that they could win a few games while they try to rebuild, but I guess the object is to lose every game now. If you're trying to create a winning culture, the only way to do that is to win. I fear the only thing this coming season will teach is how to lose.
     
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  3. AJT73

    AJT73 Well-Known Member

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    Woody Johnson told Macgnan to still go for it. He said you can cut Revis becasue he was awful, Marshall because of locker room issues and Mangold because of injuries and money. He said sign who you can to compete. Johnson then realized in May the Jets couldn't sing anyone to compete and realized the team was going to be awful. He saw that by releasing Harris and trading or releasing Decker he could save another 13 million he said do it. Johnson in his mind has a plan but has no clue how to act on it. If he listened to his football people and let them do what they had to do we wouldn't be in this position. Instead we have a stubborn owner who thinks he knows everything and everything he does looks dumb and allows for the Jets to be a laughing stock. Until he realizes he has to trust the football people or a new owner comes in things like this will continue to happen and the Jets will get nowhere.
     
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  4. Peebag

    Peebag Well-Known Member

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    The only move that I haven't liked this off season was the McCown signing. Again we were bidding against no one for this cat's service.

    Either Hack or Petty better be the starter for every game this year unless injuries happen due to the lackluster O-Line we have.
     
  5. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    But that trying to remain competitive while rebuilding is nonsense. It prolongs the agony. Yes, with Cutler we may have won a few more games this season, but at what cost? He isn't the long-term answer at QB. He would have taken snaps away from Hack and Petty, and it would have delayed our finding out if either could be our FQB. If they couldn't, those extra wins would probably have served to make it impossible for the Jets to get a quality QB prospect in next year's draft. It would have just doomed us to the same old BS mediocrity.

    Sooner or later, teams have to wise up and realize that the only way they will get better is to bite the bullet and do a real rebuild.

    You aren't gonna create a winning culture with a JAG QB, either. You're trying to put the cart before the horse. Wake up, guy. The only way to win consistently and build that winning culture is to get a FQB and surround him with talent. Continually bringing in older vet FAs is not the answer. Continually drafting in the middle of the draft is not the answer. The reality is that a team almost always has to suck before one can take the leap to very good or great.
     
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  6. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    I think the rebuild has been part of the plan all along. I think it went into overdrive after the OTA's when the Jets realized that neither Hack nor Petty was ready to go and McCown was likely to be the starting QB at the beginning of the season.

    I think the Cutler angle is mostly smoke. The Jets clearly did not pursue him heavily because he would have signed with any NFL team willing to give him a decent paycheck and some guarantees. The Jets were looking for a vet option for the year if neither of the young guys were good to go and they weren't interested in acquiring a guy they'd be forced to play based on the contract and cap hit. That's what Cutler would have been.
     
  7. grkmanga31

    grkmanga31 Well-Known Member

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    I think that the recent moves with Decker and Harris signify a stronger push to rebuild. It may signal a belief that there was no need to have high cap guys above 30 on a team if we are really committing to tanking. I think the departure from many long time Jets and older-overpaid players was certainly a step in the tanking direction, but they were also no brainers. Getting rid of Deck and Harris, to me at least, means Jets have no interest in being that great this year and have interest and re-evaluating the organization as a whole, the direction they want to take, and how best to reach that goal.

    Also, we are looking at 80 - 90 in cap space in 2018 so its very possible that if Hack or Petty blow, and we get a top 2 or 3 pick, we could get Darnold or Rosen and end up with one of the best QB prospects in awhile and a shit ton of cash to spend in FA.

    Plus the addition of Adams, Maye and Hansen - Stewart means the Jets are trying to create a new nucleus of players.

    I'm cool with going through the motions in 2017 if we finally figure out if Hack or Petty are worth it. If neither are good then our record wont be that great anyways.

    Also, Woody probably recognizes that attendance this year will be really bad. Since that's pretty clear, can we just play Hack or Petty and pretty much act as if McCown is a coach?

    If you're fully committing to a youth movement then you may as well give Hack or Petty as many reps as you possibly can.
     
    #7 grkmanga31, Jun 9, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
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  8. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    The Jets really don't want to throw a boo magnet out on the field at the start of the season if they can help it. McCown has a better chance of minimal competency to get things rolling. Then a few games in with the Jets out of the competitive bracket they can work in Hackenberg and the fans will be less likely to boo them off the field when he has his hiccups. Petty will be there as a safety valve at that point also.

    If they throw Hack on the field right away and he just totally sucks - which is the most likely possibility from a range of possibilities at this point - the fans will be all over him by his third start or so. That's not what the Jets want to lead with in a season where everybody knows that we're not competitive and some fans can't deal with that even though it's the reality.

    Booing a rebuilding team is a Philly fan move. But some will do it anyway. Ideally not until much later in the season when it is clear we're getting something out of all the hassles with our draft position.
     
  9. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I hope that you're right about the rebuild being part of the plan all along. If so, I'd be curious to know if the plan was to try to be competitive for a couple of years while rebuilding, then if that didn't work, switch to a full rebuild, or if it was decided to be the "new plan" or "Plan B" after last season's flop. Either way, if it was part of the plan, that gives some hope for Woody and the future of the team. It's hard for me to believe that now, however, based on Woody's track record. I have no more confidence in him than I do Bowles.

    I also hope that you're right that they were just looking for a vet QB in case the young QBs weren't ready. Knowing Bowles, however, I don't think it would have mattered if Hack and Petty blew it out of the part in OTAs, mini-camp and TC, Bowles would have started Cutler because it gave him and the team the "best chance to win."
     
  10. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

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    Our major disagreement is that you don't have to finish a season drafting in the top 5 to get a FQB. You can move up. Many teams have done it, some with success, some without, but it can be done. I don't think you can build a winning culture if you go into each game without any hope of winning. I'm not a fan of Cutler, but at least with a Cutler-like QB you give the players some hope that if they play well, they might win. With this roster, there is very little hope.
     
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  11. Greenday4537

    Greenday4537 Well-Known Member

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    I mean, they started cutting a lot of the vets a while ago so obviously no, this wasn't last minute.
     
  12. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    Yeah, such a large salary for him is confusing tbh.
     
  13. Big Cat

    Big Cat Well-Known Member

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    I've heard people say that the day Decker and Harris were cut was the day before the deadline to renew/buy season tickets. Can anyone confirm that?

    If true, it would be a terrible look paired with the reports that the cuts were directed by Woody in order to save his own money.
     
  14. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Moving up is a pipe dream. With the shortage of quality QBs and all the teams needing one, unless a team is picking the top 2-3, they can probably forget getting one of the top QBs. That's the reality of it. Many teams have done it in the past. Not so much recently. The top teams have held onto their picks. The Bears foolishly moved up one spot in this past draft to get Trubisky, but if SF or Cleveland had really wanted him, the Bears would have not been able to move up.

    You're right that you can't build a winning culture if you don't have any hope of winning, and unless you have a FQB, you have no real hope of winning consistently. You aren't going to build a winning culture with a loser like Cutler at QB due to either his personality or his play. If you can't understand either of those two points, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
     
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  15. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    If the Jets fans are that freaking stupid that they'd boo Hack, then they ought to be banned from attending games. The Jets and world would be better off without morons like that.
     
  16. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I just remembered something else. If the plan was to do a complete rebuild this season all along, why did the Jets bring in Donta Hightower and try to sign him and make him cupcakes?

    The more I think about this, the more I think there was no plan to rebuild the right way. I they were sort of forced into it. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.
     
  17. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

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    Three teams did it in the last draft. We'll only know if the Bears were foolish some time in the future. Same with the other two teams that moved up. You can't make that determination now. I agree about Cutler being an unattractive option, but he's better than anything currently on the roster and that's all I meant, someone, not necessarily Cutler, to give the Jets a chance, however meager, at winning on Sunday.
     
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  18. LV Coach

    LV Coach Well-Known Member

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    It pretty much doesn't matter if the plans were changed to do a full scale rebuild, that's what is happening now. McCown can start the first two games and then it's time for Hack to hit the field. Win, lose or draw. Petty can back him up and we will see what we really have for QB's. I can't project the draft until the season is 3/4 over. That will also give us time to peruse the possible QB's and teams also in the hunt.
     
  19. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    The Bears and Chiefs were the only two who traded up to get a QB. The Bears moved from #3 to #2. The Chiefs moved only to #10. That's a lot different than moving into the top 3. If another team had taken Mahomes, the Chiefs wouldn't have gotten him. When you're desperate for a QB, you can't count on luck or being able to move up.

    Since the Jets may very well need to get a QB in next year's draft, or if not a QB, a LT or stud pass rusher, they probably don't want to win a lot of games this season. Repeat after me, wins are not important in 2017, wins are not important in 2017.
     
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  20. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    I just can't get on board with those who think Woody Johnson is calling many of these shots; he's certainly no Jerry Jones, not even a Daniel Snyder or Eddie Debartolo. If he was a powerhouse businessman he would have been running at least a division of Johnson & Johnson instead of being relegated to dabbling in charitable organizations. He's not a guy who's out there on the field once the game starts, he's rarely seen at a practice and has never made it a secret that he lets his football people run the football operations. The main problem is he hasn't seemed to do a good job in getting the right football people or even the right consultants for finding the right football people.

    I think he may have played his biggest hands in hiring Bret Favre and Tim Tebow but that was more for marketing purposes for selling those PSLs than because he had the football knowledge necessary to hire them to win games. What that leaves the team with is a General Manager with one vision working side by side with a Head Coach with his own vision. I don't think they have a terrible time working together but they're also not completely in synch. Until there is a qualified, experienced person effectively directing the football operations it will be extremely difficult to be successful. That guy should have been installed five months ago, if not 17 years ago.

    I guess the question this brings up is what would the Jets be like today if the Dolan's had not been outbid for the team by just a bit of pocket change. At least we'd have a family everyone loves to hate to target for our displeasure.
     
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