Well I think you misunderstood my point. First, Sanchez had all the tools to succeed, but I specifically noted that he was essentially stripped of his supporting cast. That said, before that happened, he was good enough to get them to two championship games - NOT by himself, but he was capable enough to get them there and almost to the SB. But then the whole thing fell apart. But at the time, in the draft room, knowing they needed a QB, they rolled the dice, and it was a calculated risk. With hindsight you can say it was a bad decision, but at the time, it was judged worthwhile, and despite all the negatives you note, they still almost got to two SBs. Rex and his ways cost them far more than Sanchez's mistakes and shortcomings did, and if he hadn't gotten hurt in the meaningless game, he might still be the QB and they might've made a couple of more runs. Bottom line: Sanchez wasn't the problem, nor was trading up for him. It might well have worked out, but for a few different decisions by the GM/HC. I give Tanny credit for at least swinging for the fence - big rewards require big risks. But I do think it should make a GM pause before taking a QB with such limited experience. It'll be interesting to see if Trubisky works out since he came out early too.
1. Sanchez did not have all the tools to succeed. His pitiful short range accuracy was one of the things that did him in. Schottenheimer was bad, but that doesn't excuse Sanchez with his piss-poor short passing game. His colossal deficiency in short passes did him in eventually. 2. Tannyball was in full force when the wheels fell off. 5 guys were eating up near 50% of the entire salary cap. [Sanchez/Mangold/Ferguson/Harris/Revis] That means the other 48+ guys were taking peanuts of a salary just to stay on the roster. Yeah - that's not on Sanchez. That's what you get for letting Tannenbaum ruin your team. 3. Still - Sanchez WAS the problem. No matter how you slice it, he WAS the main problem. Yeah, he was a part of a much bigger problem that is Mike Tannenbaum, but you cannot deny he was one of the main problems during Rex Ryan days. Huge amount of cap went his way, and his play didn't justify such salary. Nor did it justify trading up.
Sanchez inability to throw screen passes accurately really killed him once the protection started to break down in front of him. One of the best ways to keep the defense honest is to throw screen passes in the flats when the edge rush is overloaded. The Jets couldn't do that because Sanchez had some kind of mental block on those throws, passing behind the receiver a lot and throwing it to the other guys for a pick 6 now and then.
Trading up for him in the context that the move was made (repeated trade ups year after year) was kind of guaranteed to leave him with a shortfall of talent around him once the vets he started with aged out. Sanchez wasn't good enough to compensate for holes opening up all around him.
Sanchez was on his way in 2010, then the FO decided to rip his weapons from him, then Holmes happened, then Tebow happened, then 4th QTr of preseason game happened. If any team needs to see how not to handle a young QB they only need to check out the Jets handling of Sanchez. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sorry if I misunderstood your point. It's not that often that we disagree, but I still think we don't agree here. I don't think Sanchez had all the tools to succeed. I never liked him as a prospect. I was saying that I didn't want him before the draft and immediately after before he played a down, so it isn't just hindsight. I didn't think his tools were all that good, and I thought he was too inexperienced, not ready for the NFL, and then once on the Jets, I thought him more immature than most players entering the NFL. That doesn't mean that I think his character was bad, because I don't. It was things like eating the hot dog on the sideline and yukking it up on the sideline during a loss. So I never thought it was a good risk on him. Rex and his ways did cost the Jets more than Sanchez, and I would add that Tanny and his ways also cost the Jets more than Sanchez. I don't hate Sanchez, just don't have a lot of regard for him. It's not his fault the team drafted him. I also agree that trading up in that situation wasn't the problem, but it was who they traded up for that was the problem. I don't think it ever would have worked out. I remember reading an article that I think was on Football Outsiders. Unfortunately, it is no longer on the net, but it clearly detailed that at that point in time not one single QB who entered the draft early had ever succeeded, and that the deck was stacked against him and the Jets. Add in Tanny's proclivities and Rex's ego and focus solely on the D, and it was a recipe for disaster. I
It's pretty simple, honestly. If you love the guy, if you're going to do everything you can to put him in a position to succeed, bending scheme to match their strengths, and doing the best you can to give them a supporting cast, you can trade up into the top of the first to get your guy. If you're not going to be willing to do this, it's just going to hurt the team - all the great young QBs in this league who've had success recently have had FOs/Coaches committed to working and building around them. I can absolutely see the Jets giving away something like their 1, the Seahawks 2, a 4, and the 2019 1 to move from ~10 to 2 with San Francisco. I think that's a fairly reasonable price estimate of what it'll cost us, too, just given the ammo other parties are likely to be able to comparatively offer. Could be more or less but it's in the ballpark. Now, other people have correctly commented - the Jets are missing foundational pieces at key positions that make any trade up a pretty big gamble. So the Jets would have to be pretty sold on the guy to do it.
I wouldn't mind trading up for a non-QB like Saquon Barkley, Mike McGlinchey, or Arden Key. They are probably the safest players in the draft and would give us something to build around.
Don't think we'll have to trade up, I think Jets have about 1 more win left in them. It's very possible they lose out because we are going to play some serious playoff teams coming up and the only win that I could see as versus the Chargers. There will also be 2-3 QB's that go in the top 15 IMO
Key looks like the best pass rusher in this class, but his team interviews and medical are extremely important. He had shoulder surgery earlier this year, and it took him a while to get back into playing shape. He also took a leave of absence from the team for personal reasons. In his interview, he'll need to explain why he left the team, but if everything checks out, he looks like a great pick.
You absolutely trade up - not even a question in my mind. Why? Because we have $80 million in cap space to fill the other holes AND 2 #2 picks. If I were Woody I would make them do it to grab a Rosen type player, a polarizing talent that can fill the seats and make the Jets relevant again. Please, no more "we'll play the old guy until we lose our 9th game" bs.
Here's a curious case of Case Keenum. My two cents say: 1. Jets need to bolster their OL. It won't matter who the QB is unless this issue is addressed pronto. C/OG are all liabilities. 2. Jets D is actually in serious hole. They need minimum two key cogs - outside pass rushing OLB and the NT. [I am starting to miss Harrison. Mac failed hard on this one.] I'd think that, if trade up does occur, that should allow the Jets to pick an OLB. Not for a QB. [OLB in 1/C in 2/OG in 3/RB in 4 would look like a fantastic draft to me.] That said, Jets do need to invest heavily in organizational infrastructure as well. Especially DBs and DC. And yeah - maybe that HC too. [Of course, OL coach and ST coach are the first issue.] http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...-minnesota-vikings-whether-re-signed-2017-nfl
I'd rather sign Cousins than trade up for a QB. Draft Quenton Nelson with pick #8 (their current spot) and then Bryce Love with the 2nd.
I am sure tons of people in Minnesota agreed with you before the season. [Did you even bother to read the article?]
Great article, and certainly made a lot of good points, but as you implied, the Vikings organization is MUCH better than the Jets. But Where I really disagreed with you post was not even considering taking a QB in the first four picks, Moreover, even if they take the best Edge rusher, that will help the "D", but again, the offense isn't improved. This is a scoring league,,,if you can't put points on the board you don't win. Maybe if they sign Cousins, your draft list would be palatable, but it's not what I would do. BTW: This is what really jumped out at me "There isn't much of a reason to think that Keenum and Goff were put in position to succeed by Jeff Fisher's coaching staff." So when everyone here keeps saying that "Obviously Petty and Hack are no good, otherwise they'd be playing", they need to stop and consider the above. Coaches aren't infallible by any stretch. They have their biases, and that can completely make them blind to the obvious.
That is specifically the point I was trying to make. And I've been trying to point out that Jets are not in a position to "draft a QB and pray for success." They need to improve the organization and the team first. Vastly, if I should accentuate. P.S. I didn't include QB in the draft specifically because of that. Using all 4 to improve the overall team depth will go a long way for Petty and Hack, especially in that the protection will hold up better. And the defense WILL come off the field after a favorable 3rd down. [I think Morton can get a quality starter out of Petty, but we won't see that happen unless the powers that be from above pull the cord on McClown disaster. Hell - Morton made a starting caliber QB out of McClown for crying out loud.]
You are right, thus I would argue Mayfield has a few red flags that would preclude me from trading up. If he is there. May be. I might consider a trade up only for Rosen and may be Darnold at this point, but that is simply based on the experts assessment of his potential.
