Disagree 10 thousand per cent..the losers you mentioned had red flags all over them e.g. Manziel and his lifestyle, Sanchez and his limited College playing time..RG3 had attitude from the get go etc The success of Watson Wentz and Goff had nothing to do with an exception or "luck"..the GMs involved were quite savvy and did a lot of research on each player...Luck=preparation and opportunity meeting Nothing in life is risk free..you have to buy something high low or in between . The future is now...you quote some economics "buy low and sell high" except the NFL is not the stock market
You can trade up if you pick a QB you love, mold the offensive system around him, and also have enough cap space or prior talent to make up for the lost picks. Although I think the Jets have a nice young core, we don't have a lot of depth and trading up will likely mean giving away 2-3 1st round picks, a price that is extremely prohibitive. At this point, I would be shocked if we land one of the more coveted QB prospects but drafts are fickle and QB's can slide due to this years poor play from a bunch of them. I personally wouldn't be opposed to it, but it has to be for Rosen or Darnold because I still think they are both a category above the rest. But then we have to ask whether Bowles is the right HC to bring along this young QB and that is the trickier question for me. Sure he has the team playing fast and with a lot of heart, but that doesn't mean he can develop QB's. Pederson with Wentz, Goff McVay, Bill O'Brien - Watson, Reid with Mahomes next season, there's a theme here and that is offensive minded coaches that can mold the offense around the QB, and help them develop. Furthermore, if we are going to go QB high, that won't fly with our offensive line because quite frankly our o-line is just ok.
There was nothing wrong with the Sanchez trade, heck it was a great trade. Gave up a bunch of filler players and a few picks. The ultimate issue was the Jets didn't build around Sanchez. If the Jets could make a trade like that again, sign me the F up.
Depends on what the Jets give up. I wouldn't mind trading back into the first round, to grab a QB that perhaps is starting to drop. I wouldn't make an RG3 like trade. That was way too much.
The Sanchez trade was great - gave up a 1st and a 2nd, Kenyon Coleman, Abram Elam and Brett Ratliff. Like you said, it was the Jets draft approach thereafter that made the trade look bad because of how poor the talent got around him.
That extra second round pick provides a lot of flexibility. You don’t feel too bad parting with a 2nd and 3rd or 4th to jump back in to the first while still having another 2nd in your pocket. Moving back up for a Lamar Jackson after grabbing an lt or edge rusher would really set this team up.
Indeed. I like the kid Bradley Chubb from NC State as an Edge rusher to pair up with the improving Jordan Jenkins ... Right now, it's tough to gauge where Lamar will go. He's going to be the most talked about QB prospect come draft day IMO. I really hope he drops to the middle of the first to start. Some will mark him as a 2nd rounder, some will have him as a top 5 pick.
That's an excellent clarification, whenever I hear trade up, first thing that comes up is the thought of Jimmy Johnson, Mike Ditka...etc. I would never want the jets to make that type of trade, however if they want to swap first round picks with another team and maybe one of the seconds, I would be ok with that depending on who they want. However the way the drafts have been lately it seems they can get a good QB in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, while keeping their picks and using them to continue to build the team to support any QB that may develop into a FQB.
If Allen has any real potential for the NFL, I'll bet the Packers take him. He could sit behind Rodgers for 2-3 years learn a lot and have a chance to develop pressure free. It probably wouldn't do him or the Jets much good to draft him. Unless Petty develops and could start for a couple of years, the Jets would have to keep McCown or some other JAG, and many Jets fans would be calling him a bust since he couldn't "beat out McCown or that Jag."
Why don't you take a look at the entire draft from 2009 to 2012? Let me do the little work for you: 2012 - NEW YORK JETS RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 16 Quinton Coples DE North Carolina 2 43 Stephen Hill WR Georgia Tech 3 77 Demario Davis LB Arkansas State 6 187 Josh Bush DB Wake Forest 6 202 Terrance Ganaway RB Baylor 6 203 Robert T. Griffin G Baylor 7 242 Antonio Allen SS South Carolina 7 244 Jordan White WR Western Michigan 2011 - NEW YORK JETS RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 30 Muhammad Wilkerson DT Temple 3 94 Kenrick Ellis DT Hampton 4 126 Bilal Powell RB Louisville 5 153 Jeremy Kerley WR Texas Christian 7 208 Greg McElroy QB Alabama 7 227 Scotty McKnight WR Colorado 2010 - NEW YORK JETS RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 29 Kyle Wilson CB Boise State 2 61 Vladimir Ducasse T Massachusetts 4 112 Joe McKnight RB USC 5 139 John Conner RB Kentucky 2009 - NEW YORK JETS RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 5 Mark Sanchez QB USC 3 65 Shonn Greene RB Iowa 6 193 Matt Slauson G Nebraska If this draft looks good to you - I have nothing more to say. [This is NOT a good draft.]
The point was that is wasn't trading up to get Sanchez that was the problem, it was that they didn't replace the talent drain around him when it left.
so my point is clear then? the trading up for sanchez wasn't an issue, it was what transpired afterwards
Trading up to get Sanchez was part of a pattern of neglecting the draft that led the Jets into a talent cul-de-sac from which they have not yet emerged.
Are you implying that trading up and drafting Sanchez was the problem? Or that Sanchez was the problem? How did Sanchez create that problem? IMO, the Sanchez pick could've easily worked out. After all, he took them to two AFC title games, but then the :brain trust" allowed all that talent to leave without replacing it. I don't know if they thought that Sanchez was good enough to carry the team by himself, or what, but that was a really stupid decision. But none of that was Sanchez's fault. And deciding to put him into a meaningless P.S. game in garbage time behind a crap OL that got him hurt with what was essentially a career-ending injury, also was not his fault. I'm not saying Sanchez was a HOF'er, but he was definitely good enough to win them a SB with the right talent, and thus trading up to get him was a good move at the time.
Looks like you are very confused on this issue. 1. You claim [trading up is not an issue.] 2. Then you bring Sanchez argument [as if that is the whole deal.] 3. I then showed you the draft history littered with that trading up [and I didn't even go as far back as Dslob trade either] and you go out and say [SO SANCHEZ WAS NOT AN ISSUE!] Sanchez WAS the issue. So was the ENTIRE FUCKING DRAFT CLASS. With average roster turnover in today's NFL, that's not going to keep the roster stocked. We have experienced the aftermath of this disaster in Idzik days. We are now coming out of the tunnel, and now should we crawl back into it? P.S. And yes, as a QB, Sanchez was a miserable failure. One of the reasons he couldn't eclipse 60% completion ratio was his god-awful short-pass accuracy. He just couldn't hit an RB on a flat route for crying out loud. That means screen passes are all out. Also that means whatever hot routes Jets might have employed are again all out. If you cannot connect a short range passes, you likely won't sustain long drives. [He rarely did even during his good years.]
There’s a time and place to trade up and take your shot at a fqb, 2009 was absolutely the right time. The line,d,and run game was set up to prop up a young qb. The bad picks, bad pro personnel decisions and marks own short after the trade do not change the fact that the time was right. With the cap space, extra 2nd rounder and a defense that seems to have enough young talent, this might be the best time to do it again. Just hope this time they are willing to commit to the qb
Jets mismanaged Sanchez's development as well as the roster. Color wrist bands? How about the crappy Schottenheimer offense? I know you didn't like Schotty, the only poster that did was Junc. He could've been coached better, not saying he would've been an MVP, but 2011 season you saw Mark turning the corner. Then Mangold went down and so did Mark eventually ... If the Jets can make a similar trade-up then build the roster around the QB, then I think the Jets will be better off. It wouldn't necessarily be the same scenario.
Sanchez surely was going to be a good QB throwing to an old Plaxico and Derrick Mason. They got rid of the players that Mark had a true rapport with. Oh Wayne Hunter and Brian Schottenheimer? Mark wasn't great, but he had NO shot.
First, RG3 didn't have attitude from the get go, he was seen as high character. He only developed issues when things didn't go his way, which was after he got injured in DC. More importantly, every prospect has red flags. There were posters on this forum saying Watson, Wentz, and Goff wouldn't amount to anything in the NFL. Because Waston played with great teammates, Wentz played FCS, and Goff played in the Cal spread. If you look at the history of GMs drafting QBs, it becomes clear GMs have no clue what they're doing. Top picks are as likely to be busts as successes, and they don't do any better than QBs taken later in the draft. Unless you think the Texans, Eagles, and Rams have information the rest of the NFL doesn't, they got lucky. And buy low sell high applies to more than the stock market. But keep thinking it doesn't. That's how smart teams keep fleecing the rest of the league. Also when the Texans, Eagles, and Rams traded up the last few trade-ups hadn't worked out. So they didn't have to give up as many picks as teams who try it this year will.
Sorry, but I totally disagree with your post. Sanchez wasn't the problem, but he was certainly part of the problem. In general, Tanny didn't value draft picks. He gave them away like a pez dispenser. I don't think there was every any chance that Sanchez would work out. For one thing, he had too little playing experience in college, and his collegiate HC and every scout said that Sanchez was not ready to play in the NFL, that he needed to sit for a minimum of a year, and probably two. So what did the Jets do? Of course, they started him immediately. Then he was saddled with horrible OCs, and probably the worst QB coach(es) in the NFL Then you have an idiot for a HC who knew nothing about offense, knew nothing about developing a QB, never tried to learn, and was brash and stupid enough to dump tons of pressure on his rookie QB by proclaiming that the Jets were going to win the SB. Then, in successive years the offense around him was dismantled by his HC and GM as players retired, were released, or not re-signed (including veteran leaders on offense), and were't replaced. Sanchez did not take the team to two AFC title games. The team carried him. He played well in the postseason, but was carried during the regular season. Saying that none of it was Sanchez' fault is also off imo. The Jets drafting him and then not handling him in the appropriate manner wasn't his fault, nor was being put into a meaningless preseason game, but he made choices, and I think a lot of things were his fault. He chose to leave school early and enter the draft when his HC told him that he wasn't ready. I'm not sure how seriously he took the game or his play as evidenced by his eating a hot dog on the sidelines during a game. He made lots of bonehead decisions. Perhaps with the right organization that allowed him to sit for a year or two, and where he got topnotch coaching and development, Sanchez might have been good enough for his team to win a SB, but I doubt it. He was a horrible pick imo, and it was compounded by trading up for him.
