The development of our younger N.Y.J players.

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by DefenseWinsChampionships, Sep 21, 2016.

  1. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    First and foremost I'm 31 years of age. During my late teenage years and throughout my 20's you've always been able to view Jets fan forums over the internet while being able to participate in fan discussion surrounding the franchise, team, front office, coaching staff and players. It's made for some insightful football talk.

    Prior to that during my childhood days all I knew were my pops, grandfather, older brother, uncles, cousins, immediate family & school yard friends to talk about the Jets with. We were all from South Ozone Park in Queens and we were mostly all N.Y Jet fans (some Giants).

    Those were my childhood days where as a fan you'd allow a specific player time to develop while being coached up. Which took patience from a fan base. Then and only then could you call a spade a spade and truly understand a players ability, potential and/or their floors and ceiling level.

    You couldn't just run to a message board and scream bust every time a younger player made a mistake. That type of mentality is a cop out, an easy way out, and imo selling yourself short as a fan. You couldn't call out the likes of a Brandon Marshall and Darrelle Revis (of today) every time they dropped a pass or got beat. You'd have to remember all the good they've done as Jets, have patience, use logic & wait for your coaches to tap into developing players potential. There was no running a young player out of town before giving them the same chances as the NFL veteran's that came before them.

    With that said the more I read through some of these threads, not all, just some the more I realize that some of our fans unfortunately have either no patience whatsoever or have an actual lack of understanding of what both coaching and player development consists of. I call it 'the message board era'.

    Just look at some of our thread title's or simply skim through some of these posts from certain posters.

    ▪ Bryce Petty as only a 2nd year player (4th rounder) at the complex position of 'Quarterback' (of all positions) all of a sudden has no future within this league and/or even after a promising preseason showing alongside the likes of Peake, Jalin & Anderson - suddenly has no future as a potential starter. Head scratcher.

    ▪ Is Mauldin a potential bust? I've even asked myself, what type of question is that. Has me wanting to ask more questions of my own. Is Lorenzo Mauldin (3rd rounder, 82nd overall) not only two games into his 2nd season while only coming off his rookie campaign? At the age of only 23 (one of our youngest defensive players) did he not record 4.0 sacks during his rookie season as a situational pass rusher? Has Lorenzo not put up 1 sack (technically on pace for 8) throughout only two games as a 2nd year player? Outside of Kwon Alexander of the Buccaneers which pass rushing LB (drafted after Mauldin) has shown more promise as a pass rusher than that of Lorenzo Mauldin? Better yet how many of those Linebackers drafted after Mauldin are still on their respected teams only 1 year later? Mind boggling.

    Those were simply two examples of two younger Jet players who are not only still developing but have also yet to develop into a finished product. I'm not even sure that our coaching staff has been able to tap into their potential just yet.

    Below I'll list off a few of our younger Jet players who are still developing their overall talents in order to hopefully recognize that these players are still kids on an NFL playing field.

    None of them are currently close to being a finished product as of right now. They're all currently developing (some already with playing time, some learning from the outside looking in).

    21: Jalin Marshall (Rookie).
    21: Christian Hackenberg (rookie).
    22: Leonard Williams (2nd year).
    22: Darron Lee (rookie).
    22 Jordan Jenkins (rookie).
    23: Lorenzo Mauldin (2nd year).
    23: Juston Burris (rookie).
    23: Robby Anderson (rookie).
    24: Devin Smith (2nd year).
    24: Calvin Pryor (3rd year).
    24: Charone Peake (rookie).
    24: Quincy Enunwa (3rd year).
    24: Lac Edwards (rookie).
    25: Bryce Petty (2nd year).
    25: Marcus Williams (3rd year).
    25: Brian Winters (4th year).
    25: Brent Qvale (3rd year).
    25: Wesley Johnson (3rd year).
    26: Deon Simon (rookie).
    26: Mike Catapano (4th year).
    26: Sheldon Richardson (4th year).

    Just to name a few.

    I'm not sure some of these posters understand or even realize how young & inexperienced a lot of our players truthfully are.

    Outside of Sheldon Richardson and Calvin Pryor (due to the playimg time they've already received) all of these players mentioned above, each and every one of them are either very young in age or really inexperienced with overall playing time.

    When on the football field none of these players mentioned above should be ran out of town with premature criticism every time they make a mistake without being given an opportunity to learn from and correct their mistakes. That takes development. Without proper developing of yesterday there wouldn't be any Pro Bowlers, All-Pro's or Hall of Famers as of today. You wouldn't even have solid role playing depth players.
     
    #1 DefenseWinsChampionships, Sep 21, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
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  2. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Happy Birthday! May your future birthdays bring you many Jets victories and championships.
     
  3. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    What the hell is wrong with you? Been dipping into the birthday shots already? This is New York; this is the NFfuckinL! There's no time for learning, no time for a guy who's not ready the day he cashes his first check, no time for adjustment to a new system, new coaches, a new pace to the game. We want the world and we want it now!
     
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  4. Vahncase

    Vahncase Well-Known Member

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    Didn't realize Jalin was so young, holy shit.
     
  5. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    He's the youngest player on our team.

    Which is why I was so impressed with two of his clutch receptions during pressure situations of the 2nd half (especially after his fumble in which was returned for a Bills TD giving Buffalo the lead).

    Under those circumstances against a divisional rival, on the road, during a Primetime National Televised game it would've been easy for a player of his age to crawl into a ball and finish the game as a shell of himself.

    That didn't happen with Jalin. The kid really stepped up within the form of redeeming himself and he showed character out there while doing so.

    Credit also goes to coach Bowles for keeping him in the game, Gailey for calling his number & Fitzpatrick for believing in him. You bench Jalin there, or ignore him while on the field and imo you destroy his confidence moving forward.
     
    #5 DefenseWinsChampionships, Sep 21, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
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  6. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    Audie Murphy defended the Colmar Pocket single-handedly from atop a destroyed M10 tank destroyer, killing or wounding at least 50 Germans at the age of 19.

    And people want us to give these pansy football players time to develop?

    #NoExcusesEverForAnything #CurmudgeonLife
     
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  7. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    It's a different era. In general, times and life were tougher then. We have it much easier today, children are more pampered and more spoiled, and have an easier time of it.

    Murphy was a great man, a TRUE hero, and then went on to become a movie star. Half these players today probably would have never graduated or learned to read and write if they weren't helped and pushed along because of football. That said, not everyone can be an Audie Murphy. Some are mere mortals and take more time to learn and develop. Once the Jets have drafted them, the important thing is that they develop, not how fast they develop. In trying to rush some players their confidence is ruined or they struggle unnecessarily and then the fans get down on them. Patience, grasshopper.
     
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  8. Cman68

    Cman68 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    Well done OP! After so many years of watching newer teams come into the league and enjoying more success, its understandable that some Jet fans just dont have the patience anymore for a retooling let alone a rebuild. They want results NOW and if they dont get it...everything and everyone sucks. I know this because I used to be one of them years ago.
     
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  9. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    How about the development of our younger posters here on our very own TGG here in 2016? I tell you the likes of Smashmouth, PhillyStacks and TampaBayJetsFan85 couldn't ever hope to develop into something special like this kid if we let him show his overall talents to his full potential instead of running him off the board.
     
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  10. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but he didn't do that right out of training camp. He built up to it by starting with smaller acts of heroism and continued on with ever increasing deeds of valor. :)

    Didn't realize he died in a plane crash at age 46. Suffered greatly from PTSD. My favorite movie of his is "Destry,"
     
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  11. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    Yea but with this specific Jets team it's different. It's been a long time coming since we've featured this much youth.

    Players such as Mauldin, Petty, Hackenberg, Smith etc shouldn't be over criticized nor written off when they've yet to have the time needed in order to develop. Marcus Williams is another one.

    As mentioned before but I'm not even sure if our coaching staff has had the opportunity to tap into their potential just yet.

    21: Jalin Marshall (Rookie).
    21: Christian Hackenberg (rookie).
    22: Leonard Williams (2nd year).
    22: Darron Lee (rookie).
    22 Jordan Jenkins (rookie).
    23: Lorenzo Mauldin (2nd year).
    23: Juston Burris (rookie).
    23: Robby Anderson (rookie).
    24: Devin Smith (2nd year).
    24: Calvin Pryor (3rd year).
    24: Charone Peake (rookie).
    24: Quincy Enunwa (3rd year).
    24: Lac Edwards (rookie).
    25: Bryce Petty (2nd year).
    25: Marcus Williams (3rd year).
    25: Brian Winters (4th year).
    25: Brent Qvale (3rd year).
    25: Wesley Johnson (3rd year).
    26: Deon Simon (rookie).
    26: Mike Catapano (4th year).
    26: Sheldon Richardson (4th year).

    These players above were just to name a few. Not all but most are being asked to play large roles here in 2016.

    There's a couple more younger Jet players on our 52 man roster who's names aren't as big. Fans seem to forget that in football, it can take a solid 3/4 years of NFL development before you begin to see a player come into his own.

    23: Lawrence Thomas (rookie).
    23: Troymaine Pope (rookie).
    24: Brandon Shell (rookie).
    24: Julian Howsare (rookie).
    25: Josh Martin (4th year).
    25: Dakota Dozier (3rd year).
    27: Darryl Roberts (rookie).

    Some of these players may not even see the field but all are either pretty young in age or very inexperienced with playing time.

    Brian Winters is a perfect example of a player written off before having an opportunity to show progression.

    Even Rontez Miles as a 28 years old (4th year Jet) is now getting actual playing time for pretty much the first time at Safety.
     
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  12. Kris 15

    Kris 15 Well-Known Member

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    Marshall reminds me of Doug Baldwin. Short but not small, stronger and faster on the field than in the gym. Underdog mentality. Hopefully he can develop into that type of player.
     
  13. twown

    twown Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's easy to criticize and overreact. Indeed, our ever-increasing addiction to stimulation and instant gratification means that thoughtful discussion is often hard to find in the deluge of reactive (and worthless) invective.

    But DWC, there's a side to this that you may not be seeing clearly, which is your emotional attachment to the future success of young Jets players. There is nothing objectively critical or "impatient" about, for example, a thread titled "Is Mauldin a potential bust?" It's just a discussion.

    (Nearly) EVERY NFL draft pick is a potential bust! That's why professionals are paid 6 and 7 figures to evaluate these players for years before each NFL draft. None of these drafted players have any NFL experience. Should we therefore just distribute them randomly, because they all have an equally likely chance to succeed?? Of course not. That's ridiculous. We watch them in college and we make educated guesses about their potential to bust BEFORE the draft. A player like Mauldin now has a full year+ under his belt. Why is questioning whether or not he's going to ultimately succeed "mind-boggling"? This conversation was already happening at the upper echelons of team offices years ago.

    I submit that you (and the rest of us) develop a subtle emotional attachment to these players once they put on the Jets uniform. We see the word "bust" next to their name and it seems impatient and unfair.

    But it's not unfair at all. It's simply a topic of discussion based on what we've seen from the player. Of course he's a potential bust. Almost every player is.

    "Does our first-round pick suck ass?" someone might write.
    Or...
    "Is our first-found pick the best player ever?"

    In the context of this forum, it's the same question. It spurns the same conversation. Don't let your emotional attachment to a player's success turn a valid discussion topic into slander. It's not slander. It's just a question.

    CLIFFS:

    18 months ago, you would have been happy to discuss whether Mauldin was a "potential bust," even though he had no NFL experience.

    But now, because he's a Jet, it's no longer fair to ask that question because he doesn't have enough NFL experience.

    Does that make any sense?
     
    #13 twown, Sep 21, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
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  14. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    Well said but in regards to Lorenzo Mauldin I've also had some questions in which anyone has yet to answer/respond to.

    Being only two games into his 2nd season has he not recorded 5 sacks as a situational pass rusher?

    Outside of Kwon Alexander of the Buccaneers which pass rushing LB (drafted after Mauldin) has shown more promise than that of Lorenzo Mauldin thus far?

    How many of those LB's drafted after Mauldin are still on their respected teams only 1 year later?

    I'm sorry but Lorenzo Mauldin and the word/term 'bust' doesn't even belong within the same sentence as one another.

    Even if Mauldin doesn't develop into a 3-down OLB, as a late 3rd rounder that's all right, because he's currently showing promise as a role playing situational pass rusher and we've yet to see a finished product.
     
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  15. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    First off kudos to the OP for a nice post.
    IMO doomsday fans abound at Jet land. Instead of looking at the list of young talent that we now have on the roster, roughly 50% of the team, and rejoice immensely at the fact that we have in 2 short years turned this franchise from a dying dinosaur to a team with a great, not good but great future, we crap on their development because they don't show hall of fame instant potential. Good God there is something wrong with that thinking.
    The usual "This is NY and we want instant success" has given us nothing, because for every season of hope , we follow with a painfully long number of mediocre seasons. We have mortgaged the future over and over for instant gratification, but it never quite worked.
    Time better be changing, because good teams do it thru the draft, and develop young talent year in and year out. And when they do arrive, they tend to stay at or near the top for a while.
     
  16. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    Nice player comparison. As far as physical physique/build another player Jalin Marshall reminds me of, is Steve Smith. Smith I believe is faster but their strength and quickness are very similar.

    I'm not predicting he'll become any of these players mentioned above but just the fact that he's seeing the field as our youngest player at the age of only 21 is pretty impressive.
     
  17. twown

    twown Well-Known Member

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    Well argued.

    Is Mauldin a potential bust? DWC says definitely not for reasons A, B, and C.

    That's all you can do, and that's what the forum is for.
     
  18. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    Don't ask me why, because their styles are way different, but when I see J. Marshall in action as a WR I think of Wayne Chrebet. It's that toughness, swiftness, and ability to become Mr. 3rd down that is most appealing to me.
     
  19. donkey

    donkey Well-Known Member

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    If Jets players aren't in places 1-53 in the NFL Top 100, I want everyone fired.
     
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  20. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I think your very first paragraph is spot on, but the rest goes downhill with the exception of one valid observation/point. That point being that fans DO form emotional attachments to players, and do take on the role as that player's "champion" or "defender" when other posters criticize or slight that player. I'm not referring to posters who just point out facts in support of a player in an unemotional manner. I'm referring to posters who go to funny lengths sometimes to defend a player, or who take it personally. I've done it before, and think many, perhaps most of us have at some point in time during our fanhood.

    To begin with a semantic point, imo, and I don't think I'm alone, as the majority of posters on every Jets site where I've posted previously (6 of them), and I think it's the same here, only see first round picks as "busts" if they don't pan out, and not players from the second round down. With each successive round of the draft, the chances diminish that players will turn out to be or will develop into quality NFL players, much less starters. Expectations are lower for mid and lower-round picks because there's a reason they're being drafted that low. Many posters claim that they have little or no hope for any 6th or 7th round pick, and basically think they're a waste, and only worth using as a means to trade up in the draft. The average career in the NFL is only something like 3-4 years. So, while it may be disappointing if a player like Mauldin doesn't develop into at least a solid starter, he won't be a bust if he doesn't, because 3rd round picks cannot be busts by virtue of the odds against their working out. Even if he doesn't develop into a quality starter, he could become a reliable, solid backup. There's a reason Mauldin was a 3rd round pick and not that highly regarded. So how can a player like that be a "bust" if he doesn't pan out?

    To respond to your other points, it's common knowledge that many young players take a year, or even two to three years to develop. Thus, it's silly to question where a player at the beginning of his second season could possibly be a bust, because one, it's too early to reliably ascertain what he will be because there's simply not enough data or playing time to give any concrete answers, and two, because 3rd round picks cannot be "busts." "Fair" doesn't even really factor in, it's just irrational imo. One can say one isn't happy with his progress by that point in time, or it doesn't look like he's developing as rapidly as one had hoped, but it's just dumb to try to label him as a "bust." It's nothing short of impatience or thinking one can see the future when a poster wants to give up on a player and claim that he can't possibly continue to learn, grow and improve because he's not starting immediately, or struggles when he is on the field.

    I think part of the problem for Jets fans is that we've been disappointed so many times that it has caused some to become cynical and jaded. We've had to suffer through so many bad drafts and bad draft picks, TC flash in the pans, and others who gave us hope, only to disappoint us in the end. I was there a couple of years ago. I saw everything very negative regarding the Jets. I wound up having to take some time off from posting on Jets sites and following the Jets closely in order to regain the proper perspective.
     
    #20 NCJetsfan, Sep 21, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016

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