Sooo... Who's walkin the plank??

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Cman60, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. Ozymandias

    Ozymandias Well-Known Member

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    Whatever we do it won't be enough. We have the 8th hardest schedule for next season, a QB dilemma, a huge secondary dilemma, who are we going to get to fill the voids if we cut all these players?
     
  2. Peebag

    Peebag Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm...pile o' crap A or pile o' crap B? Tough choice.
     
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  3. Br4d

    Br4d 2009 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award

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    Several teams have pulled off the trick though, notably the 1989 Dallas Cowboys - who already had their QB on hand courtesy of tanking 1988 as well and then traded Herschel Walker 4 games in to guarantee a terrible season in 1989 as well. The 1989 draft off of 3-13 included 5 guys who started 144 games or more in the NFL and a 6th who started 92.

    The 1990 draft off of 1-15 included Emmitt Smith even after the Cowboys exercised their right to spend their #1 on Steve Walsh in the supplemental draft, the worst use of a supplemental pick ever and a strong cautionary note about just using your picks when they're due instead of treating future picks like bargaining chips. The thing that bailed the Cowboys out in 1990 and set up the other side of the dynasty was the Herschel Walker trade which gave the Cowboys the pick they used to take Smith.

    My primary reason for wanting the Jets to tank into a strong QB draft is that we haven't found a sustainable QB in 52 years using any other method. Our #2 and #3 QB's in franchise history were both mid 1st round picks and both got KO'd by injuries but in retrospect it's clear that neither of them was a superstar injuries or no and superstar QB is how you get to the top in the NFL these days.

    Only the guys that get to wear dresses give you the trophies in the long run.
     
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  4. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    The pats are a different story. they are a team that finds ways to win. they also have brady so if their CB is getting burnt he'll throw for 500 yards and 4TDs to make up for it. Even with subpar WRs. We don't have the luxury. unless you want to make the case dropping revis to pick up a stud QB then I would agree the hole in the secondary wouldn't be as bad.
    I think we can cut revis. but waiting 1 more year gives us a chance to fill the hols and saves us 8 million in dead money. The ideal situation would be revis taking a cut. If we could get him to take 4 mil less and keep him, it makes sense for both sides. Or if we had a ton of cap room like the browns where the dead money wouldn't matter then sure. But with our current cap situation of being just 2 mil under the cap after just cutting our LT and creating a hole there is you can only fill so many holes in an off season.

    One thing I think we could do is switch to a 4-3 defense. we have 3 young LBers we can cut harris without creating a hole. It's a better system for lee (he has a vilma like skill set) we still have jenkins and mouldin on the outside. wilk and williams can play the traditional 4-3 DE spots. and our DTs are solid as well. Richardson can be traded for a pick and use that pick to fill a need

    Right now CB, S, O-line, and QB are our biggest question marks
    good luck with that. the CB market is rough. the Decent CBs out there want 15+ mil a year. we could take some flyers on cheaper CBs though.
    his rookie deal was a 6 year 30mil contract or 5 mil a year.
    In his 1st season he started every game. only let up 3 TDs and covered number 1s all year without help. in his 2nd season he was in the probowl, in his 3rd season he was runner up for DPOTY. All while covering number 1s by himself. I'd say for his performance 5 mil a year for those 1st 3 years was a bargain. then he held out. in 2009 the franchise tag was 10 mil for CBs (the average of the top 5 salaries) so revis was making half what the top CBs were getting paid and outperfoming them. Asomougha got 14 mil a year from oakland in 2009 and revis was better. If oakland didn't give aso such a crazy deal things would have been different but they raised the market
     
  5. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    Revis will be making $16 million dolllars this year, the jets need financial flexibility, Woody made a mistake bringing him back.

    Revis did nothing well last year, keeping him on the books limits what the Jets can do in regards to signing anyone else.

    I used the Pats as an example because they don't put their CBs on an island all game, they provide safety help.

    TB can use a similar tactic to help any young CB they use if they were to cut Revis.
     
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  6. Br4d

    Br4d 2009 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award

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    Revis is walking the plank at this point after the arrest. It may be the first move he made that makes a decision easier for the Jets instead of harder and it is ironic that the guy who held the Jets over a barrel twice with holdouts now has made his release a no-brainer.
     
  7. TonyFtLaud

    TonyFtLaud Well-Known Member

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    I agree next season is going to be bad. The argument is keeping the overpaid vets who have underperformed will not make a notable difference next season and they will be even older in 2018 and likely gone by 2019 when we should be ready to complete. We have to clear cap space , and would be wise to carry a good sum of that cap space over the next season or two so we can sign a quality FA or tho where needed to complete a competitive roster.
    We are at a crossroad again. We were here twice before in recent years and both times failed. Why? We overspent and tried to win now, got close (2 Afc title games) then had to hit the roster due to bloated contracts and older underperforming vets.
    Idzick set us back years with his incredibly poor drafting. Tried again to win now in 2015 but at least Mac had the foresight to structure the contracts in a way to allow the Jets to clear the cap space necessary to rebuild the right way if the team he inherited did not have the talent to complete.
    Win now doesn't work, especially with a roster as devoid of talent as ours currently stands. We have to look at this 2 maybe 3 years down the line. If your not playing at a high level, and can't reasonably be expected to complete at a high level in 2019, you simply should not be on the roster in 2017 unless you are on a reasonable contract.
     
  8. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    he doesn't make 16 mil this year. he makes 13 mil, 6 of it is guaranteed. then he as 2.3mil in prorated bonus that counts against the cap but he was paid for last year. So realistically he's only making 13 mil but he counts 15.3 mil against the cap. if we cut him we only save 7.3 million and he still counts as 8 mil against the cap even without being on the team. So when management looks at it they have to treat it as he is being paid 7.3 mil this season. thats the money we save by cutting him. so we have the choice of paying him 13 mil and him counting 15.3mil against the cap or we cut him and pay him 6 mil and he counts 8mil against the cap still. In other words pay him and fitz a combined 6 mil and 13mil in dead space to not be here or pay revis an extra 7.3 mil to stay
     
  9. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    According to spotrac.com he receives a roster bonus of $2,000,000 this year, bumping his salary to $15,333,333 for 2017.
    • CURRENT CONTRACT
      Darrelle Revis signed a 5 year, $70,121,060 contract with the New York Jets, including $39,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $14,024,212. In 2017, Revis will earn a base salary of $13,000,000, a roster bonus of $2,000,000 and a signing bonus of $1,000,000. Revis has a cap hit of $15,333,333 while his dead money value is $6,000,000.

    Solid, I get the picture that it represents, is it worth paying him the difference to play flag football?

    I'm not ok with the kind of performance he is putting out on Sunday's, he is literally stealing money from the jets at this point, whether it's 13 million or the difference.
     
    #69 Red Menace, Feb 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
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  10. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    + 20000

    Been pushing us to tank for weeks now...only way outa this nightmare...to heck with the GM/CS

    Sets us up for an easy score on Rosen or Darnold in 2018
     
  11. TonyFtLaud

    TonyFtLaud Well-Known Member

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    His base salary is $13 million , he is due a roster bonus of 2 million due March 10th. That is not prorated . He received a $1 million bonus that is prorated over 3 years so $ 333,333.33 is prorated. If cut prior to March 10 , he counts as $6 million against the cap. The $333,333.33 accelerates against the 2016 cap. If he is on the roster come the 10th. The $2 million bonus becomes guaranteed and his cap hit for 2017 becomes
    $ 8,333,333.33
     
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  12. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Everybody keeps talking about keeping him or cutting him but they're not talking about what happens if his contract is voided as a result of his little brouhaha in Pittsburgh. It seems that would change both payments due and cap space.
     
  13. TonyFtLaud

    TonyFtLaud Well-Known Member

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    His contract is guaranteed , at least $6million of it and another $2 million becomes guaranteed on March 10. Unless he is suspended prior to the 10 of March his contract is not voidable. Even if suspended later. The guaranteed money is not recoverable. The only question is do the Jets cut him and loose the $6 mill. Try to restructure him now or gamble, wait and loose $8 million
     
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  14. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    Goodell would have to act on Mevi$ by March 9th and they are not doing that

    With all due respect to the great player he was and all TGGers with old #24 Jets jerseys hanging in the closet I wouldn't pay this master manipulator another dime
     
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  15. nicg4360

    nicg4360 Active Member

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    Why on earth would anyone want to keep Revis even if he takes a cut (will never happen in your wildest dreams). He has declining skills prob bringing him down to the value of an average or below average starter....The bigger problem is HE DOES NOT CARE. He had so many excuses for his poor play it was just sickening to here this guy at the amount this guy was getting paid. Huge morale killer.
     
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  16. xxedge72x

    xxedge72x Well-Known Member

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    This. The guy has his head elsewhere. Let his body be elsewhere too.
     
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  17. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    from what i read, the only way we get rid of the 2 mil bonus is if he signs with another team. if he chose to say just retire we are on the hook for the whole 8 mil. So yes realistically he could be as low as 6 mil in dead money but between that and the 5 mil for fitz, paying 11mil in dead money for 2 positions we are weak at, and having neither of them on the team is bad news. Of course we can say screw it, cut a bunch of people, play young guys, call 2017 a rebuilding year and focus on 2018. But how many fans are going to be OK with that? I think woody still wants to be competitive in 2017.

    Not only that but lets say revis bounces back on another team and the replacement we sign or draft plays like crap, how many of you guys will do a 180 and complain how we should have kept revis?
     
  18. TonyFtLaud

    TonyFtLaud Well-Known Member

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    Only the $6 is guaranteed, hence the $ 11 million total for Fitz ($5mill) and revis ($6mill) the $2 mill is a roster bonus that only becomes guaranteed if he is still on the roster March 10. If he signs with another team , what ever he signs for comes off the $6 million guaranteed.
    I think the majority of the fan base is not only OK with a full rebuild but are demanding it. There are a small few who still can't grasp the reality of the current roster. Who think we can turn it around in Free agency but the vast majority want a complete overhaul now.
    If Revis goes on and has successfull seasons on another team, again I think the majority would know that he would not have had that success if he stayed. It would add to the current dislike of Revis and add to the Bowles must go camp. Because if he goes elsewhere and has successfull season, it will serve to prove Bowles can't motivate players and does not hold them accountable.
    Now of course we will hear from the 2℅ who are no different than Bowles. Watch for their excuses for Revis bad year. Of course even 2nd and 3 Rd WRs ran past him, he sprained his wrist. How can he run with a sprained wrist.
     
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  19. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    ok fair enough, but that leaves the jets 16 days to cut him. if they don't then he is 8 mil no matter what and we still have an even bigger hole at CB. plus we just offered a contract to a potential decent CB who has had drug issues and suspensions so clearly we are desperate and not worried about character issues. Big mac has been going after talented players with issues since he started. It's clear we are trying to load up on talent anyway we can, cutting revis goes against that. Revis was not healthy and was out of shape last season. he could bounce back. he's a proud player I'm sure his poor season isn't sitting well with him right now. I think the best scenario would be for us to get him to take a cut. even if he agrees to take a few million less this year it would make sense. we already have huge holes at lots of positions with little cap room. making more holes doesn't help anyone. If he lowers his salary to the 6 mil guaranteed plus his 2 mil bonus and his prorated amount he would count less then 10 mil against the cap and give us some much needed room
     
  20. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    Solid, I like your ability to reason, and you make sound arguments, but I have to ask, how can you go from NO production from Revis to a bigger hole?

    It's not like there is a below zero production rating. Revis gave the jets nothing last year, once the offenses realized how weak he was, it was like a lion pride takeover.

    The young receivers abused him, he is not going to give the jets anything this year as well, and he is not going anywhere else and have a bounce back year. This is why he is asking the Jets to treat him with class, he is a manipulator and he knows if the jets cut him, he will not get another offer that he would consider taking.

    He conned the jets for $39 million dollars, no one else but the jets were stupid enough to give him top dollar.

    His days in the NFL are coming to an end, he was great and deserves to be in the HOF for his past production but you can't pay any player for past production.
     
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