Shouldn't Bowles AND Maccagnan be fired if the Jets Tank?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by The Dark Knight, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    Depends. It appears that Woody brought them in with a mandate to "Win Now". Two years in, it became evident that a rebuild is way overdue. Is Mac to blame for not having pieces in place for the long term? Maybe so. Or maybe it's Woody's, Rex's, Idzick's, Tanny's, and Bradway's fault. I lean toward blaming Woody, but you're entitled to place blame as you wish.

    My point here is that the Jets' roster has them qualified to lose every single game this season, so if Mac/Bowles end up with an 0-16 record, that doesn't seem to be grounds for firing this year.

    If you don't set your subordinates up for success, you can't blame them for failing to succeed. Not even if you're Woody Johnson.
     
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  2. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    You make excellent points, but the bottom line is this...every single player in that locker room knows that McCown isn't the long-term answer at QB. It's doubtful if he's here next year. They aren't blind, and hopefully they're not stupid. They know that the team isn't very talented on offense, and that they have no chance of being a playoff team, much less get to and win a SB until they get a QB, fix the OL and upgrade the skill position players on offense. I can understand their not being happy with losing this year, and I wouldn't want them if they were happy with losing, but they should have the intelligence to see the big picture. I seriously doubt that Bowles would lose them because he played Petty or Hack instead of McCown. They know that some players take time to develop, and the best way to do that is by playing, just as some of them are. There are all the other reasons grkmanga cited why Bowles could lose the team. IMO McCown is not that much better than Petty, and I doubt many of the players are that allied to McCown. They should know his record of play and his inability to stay healthy and on the field, and that in all likelihood, Petty and maybe Hack will be playing soon anyway due to McCown's likelihood of going down with injury. Petty has shown good leadership and has spread the ball around. He has moved the offense against other teams' backups. He belongs and has potential.

    The players' jobs are to play hard and to the best of their ability regardless of whom is on the field with them.
     
  3. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

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    Going for the win now approach to appease the fans can excuse some of the roster conditions but not all. If nothing else, the 2015 draft is looking very Tanny/idzic esque. Early returns on 2016 aren't looking too promising either.
     
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  4. grkmanga31

    grkmanga31 Well-Known Member

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    Yes but in a losing year when we have two young QB prospects it seems counterintuitive to hand Josh starting games even if he is the better QB. The players have to play no matter who is in under center, and quite frankly you can't make roster decisions based on how the players feel, which was perfectly displayed last season as Fitz was clearly not the better QB than Geno.

    I'm deff not disagreeing with you, I just think that this whole QB situation makes it impossible to play the better QB. Petty played his ass off too yesterday and he prob should get some more 1st team reps but the MCL sprain will make jets try to ease him along.
     
  5. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    You'll get no argument from me--I see plenty of reasons to fire them both, along with a lot of other folks running this outfit. I'm just saying that failing to win games with this roster isn't on that list of reasons.
     
  6. xxedge72x

    xxedge72x 2018 Gang Green QB Guru Award Winner

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    What does it take to get Woody and Waldo fired?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     
  7. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Actually I'm ok with firing Bowles - right now in fact. But before they fire Macc they need to hire a Pres. of Football Ops who has a vision and let him doing the firing and hiring. And firing Macc mid-season won't make a difference, other than make hiring a new GM a pants on fire crisis, so I would let the Pres. get on board now or ASAP and let him assess things and then be ready to act at after the last game.
     
  8. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    You haven't spent much time in the real world. Bosses do this all the time, especially the more clueless they are. It's not right or fair, but it is reality.
     
    #148 ColoradoContrails, Aug 28, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  9. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    A guy with deep pockets and a desire to be a knight in shining armor.
     
  10. PulseJet

    PulseJet Well-Known Member

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    Now that three training camps are done, I think you can judge Macc's talent evaluation skills with his first draft class. Its not pretty:

    2015 NFL Draft:
    Rd 1) Leonard Williams: No brainer. Fell into Macc's lap. I could have picked him. But it is to Macc's credit that he took BPA despite having Mo and Sheldon.
    Rd 2) Devin Smith: Bust. Yes you cant predict injuries, but he didnt look good when healthy.
    Rd 3) Lorenzo Mauldin: Another guy always injured. Flashed a bit his first year but has shown nothing since. Likely to be cut in a few days. Bust.
    Rd 4) Bryce Petty: Pages written about him on this board.
    Rd 5) Jarvis Harrison: Bust, cut and now with the Bucs.
    Rd 7) Deon Simon: Still on the team, decent depth guy for a 7th rounder. But hasnt really done anything.

    So the interesting thing to me is, if Petty was proven to be a decent starter, that would make this first Macc draft an overall slam dunk winner. A top tier DL and a starting QB. Not bad. But the insistance on pushing Hack forward and not treating both QB prospects equally hurts Macc overall.
     
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  11. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    3rd round picks aren't busts imo. It's not a high enough level pick.

    7th round picks are not usually expected to do "anything." Most don't even make NFL teams. He has been solid depth and shown some flashes of potential. IMO that's about all that can be expected from a 7th round draft pick. There's a reason they are taken in the 7th round, i.e., their talent level is lower, often times their measurables and athleticism are lower, and/or there may be some character or injury issue that caused them to drop. How many other 7th round picks from that draft (or any draft for that matter) have done "anything"?

    It was Mac's first draft and if Bradway wasn't still there, the scouting dept. that Bradway had hired (with the exception of Joey Clinkscales) was. I swear some of you guys expectations are totally unrealistic.
     
  12. What GM/coach doesn't want a boatload of $ to spend when taking on their first gig?What better way to put your stamp on the product & hopefully start laying your blueprint.

    3 years is a long long time in the NFL.More than enough time to at least set a team up for long term success.We are even further away from success than we were when they walked through the door.

    Mac has made literally one good draft pick & it fell into his lap at a position we already had a severe logjam at. The offense is the lowest it's ever been & we still have absolutely no identity.

    I certainly don't think a revolving door front office is the answer..but what have either of these clowns done to justify even 1 more season?im having a hard time justifying even 1 more month.

    They've turned our crappy football team into a complete horror show.This offense can't get more embarassing.If they didn't want the job they shouldn't have taken it!
     
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  13. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I think the bolded sentence is hyperbole and is frustration speaking.

    We ALL know that Tanny and Idzik left the cupboard bare. Mac put a bandaid on the pig in 2015 with the spluge in FA. He's been clearing out the dead wood. He has missed on some draft picks as all GMs do; some of his draft picks haven't developed as rapidly as I'd like or perhaps they should have (but it's quite possible that a lot of that blame goes on Bowles and his CS for not doing a good job developing the players); and he's either tried too hard to get along with Bowles, giving Bowles what he wants in the draft, or just has a mistaken conception that he can win with D or has enough time to build one unit at the time, but the talent level of the team is better, as is the athleticism and speed. What we have is a younger, more inexperienced, less-proven team this year.
     
  14. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    You heard it here first, anything after the 2nd round is moot. Good GMs don't make their names off the latter round picks.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. PulseJet

    PulseJet Well-Known Member

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    Unrealistic? Realistic is you need at least 2 starters per draft to maintain your team. You really need 3 to build for the future. As of now he has 1. If Petty works out it was an excellent draft. If he doesnt work out it was a bad draft.

    For comparison currently the Pats 2015 draft has 3 starters: Malcolm Brown, Tre Flowers, Shaq Mason. They retained a few backups as well. Steelers have 2, LB Bud Dupree and TE Jesse James.
    Raiders have 2, WR Amari Cooper and DL Mario Edwards
    Giants have 3, LT Erik Flowers, RT Bobby Hart (7th round pick!) and SS Landon Collins.
    Dolphins have 2: WR Devante Parker and RB Jay Ajayi

    Who is the GM? Mac or Bradway? You and I have no idea which players the scouting department gave high grades to. For all we know Bradway was banging the table for Ali Marpet or David Johnson. But we do know Mac was ultimately responsible for the Jets draft.

    I am 50/50 on Mac right now. He really needs Petty to work and his 2016 picks to not just be JAG's but strong starters.
     
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  16. I don't think he's incompetent nor do I think this will be his last stop in the league.Hes a smart guy w a good skill set for an executive level role.

    I'm extremely skeptical of his final product thus far..and that includes the drafts.I come away from the drafts feeling like a sound plan was executed but the results have been lousy.This will be a big year for his selections to state their(and his) case.

    The only way this franchise is getting better is by drafting better & not just a collection of talent.Drafting tangible/intangible Jets that fit a mold to form a team. What I've seen from Mac is a board stacker who knows talent but only in its rawest form.Hes at the mercy of his head coach regarding the real architecture of the roster. I think the Jets need something more than that.They need a visionary who can draft a team from the ground up.
     
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  17. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    What people have been talking about the last week or so is exactly why I made this thread: Mac is getting too much of a break. The more you look at his drafts and moves, it worries you that he can successfully rebuild this team. For some reason people get that Bowles has done a terrible job and are ready to fire him, but Mac not so much. People can argue he needs more time, that is fine, but they should also see he could have done MUCH better than he has so far. The team is a mess.
     
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  18. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I agree with everything you say here, especially the bolded paragraph, but that is not what you said in your earlier post.
     

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