Sam Darnold needs some work

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by abyzmul, May 10, 2018.

  1. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    A few weeks ago I read a thread here where some scout described Sam Darnold's footwork as "a cow on ice." I took it with a grain of salt since most articles leaked in the days before the draft are usually something you can take for granted, because agents pay for that shit to be leaked to promote other players.

    After watching 8 different full game every-play videos, not just highlights, I have some concerns.

    I'm not concerned overall, but this guy needs to get coached, a lot. Don't fool yourself about highlight videos. Most of the plays you will see are the ones where he is on the run.

    Watch some video of when he's NOT pressured. When he has a clean pocket. He kind of looks like a LB with a good arm playing QB. He overthrows, shows bad anticipation, and hurries when he doesn't need to.

    This guy needs some help. I like Bates. Let him coach this guy. We don't need another Sanchez.
     
  2. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Serious question here: Why do you like Bates? What indicates he can do anything to help Darnold? He didn't seem to have any luck coaching up Petty and Hackenberg but maybe they have already peaked in their ability. Bates has no record of holding any coaching job he's had for more than a year or two and has had no notable successes. There's also that thing about him not wanting the job he now has but taking it later anyway. A writer or two made vague, unattributed statements about him being the best offensive mind in the building, or something similar which certainly can be seen as damning with faint praise - is there anything else?

    I'll let anybody take a shot at carrying Darnold to where everybody here wants him to be - I'm one of the guys who's actually been waiting fifty years for the Messiah to arrive. Even if you have something solid to base your support of Bates on, don't you think that being both OC and QB coach would spread anybody too thin?
     
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  3. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    Well, you got me. I guess I sort of like the... idea of Bates? He sounds, after the team propaganda, to be something of an option. I have no real reason to like him or be sold on him.

    Who do you want to coach Sam Darnold?
     
  4. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    I won't hold my breath for a reply, so we'll move on to the meat of the topic which is not his QB coach but his issues throwing the ball behind a protected pocket.

    Has anyone not obsessed with their own ego watched film of Sam Darnold?
     
  5. 6-10 once again

    6-10 once again Well-Known Member

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    I think he appears unorthodox in some ways, and I'm not talking about his release. I think he is a strange combination of raw but also somewhat ready to play and perhaps play decently well at the NFL level at age 20. I think the reason I'm less concerned is because even with the footwork issues he is still able to be pretty darn accurate overall.

    He actually reminds me much more of Wentz then Allen does.

    I think his sky is the limit and his floor is solid, it's up to bates to help utilize his great tools to help him reach the sky
     
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  6. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    I think you are still addressing duress plays though. And while playing on the run is important for a future NFL QB, it's kind of alarming to me that his weakness is a safe place, being protected. Because that is your ideal workplace as a QB in the NFL.
     
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  7. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Good question, I just have almost no confidence in the current regime to get it right. Maybe the team needs to break the mold a bit here and bring in one or more of the QB Gurus we hear about instead of relying on internal staff to get the job done. Maybe there's a former successful NFL QB who doesn't want a permanent job but will work on a contract basis but individual success is no guarantee that a guy has any teaching ability. Successful businesses of all kinds bring in outside consultants - maybe that's the way to go to get the most out of this asset.

    Maybe it's not one guy but two or three; Darnold is working with Jordan Palmer, a private coach, now to improve his throwing motion - maybe that works but maybe he also needs a different guy to work on seeing the field better and maybe a third on his footwork. Why leave any stone unturned?
     
    #7 Ralebird, May 10, 2018
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  8. gordy

    gordy Member

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    why don't you two losers form the Breakfast Club and pine over this every day. You make great SOJ fans.
     
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  9. stinkyB

    stinkyB 2009 Best Avatar Award Winner

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    I agree, and to be honest, that's why I (and I'm sure many others) we're leaning towards Rosen, but in reality he may have even more red flags just in different areas (injuries were my concern). Overall this is why I didnt have the "CLASS OF '83 REDUX" boner that alot of people had. No prospect was flawless, and I hope Sam becomes SAM THE MAN!

    I just hope they cater to the kids strengths as he develops to build his confidence, then move onto the necessary refinements to his game to allow him to develop into a more prototypical passer.
     
  10. GQMartin

    GQMartin Go 'Cuse

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    Reports coming out of camp were that Darnold's footwork was good. Also, watching tape of his throws, it looks like he's abbreviated the throwing motion some.

    Whether or not the hitch manifests when he's on the scramble, remains to be seen.

    But yes, Darnold certainly does need work and it seems like he's taking the correct steps to improve.
     
  11. Martin&theJETS

    Martin&theJETS Well-Known Member

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    Wait, so we won’t be winning a super bowl this year? What an absolute bust. It was my understanding that this kid was dynasty ready. Sad.
     
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  12. stinkyB

    stinkyB 2009 Best Avatar Award Winner

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    That's next year.... DUH!
     
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  13. JetLifeLo

    JetLifeLo Well-Known Member

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    I watched a lot of those full game play-by-play's on Darnold too and I didn't like what I saw. I thought he wasn't that good tbh, but im not a pro scout or anything so hopefully I just don't know what I'm talking about. But seriously... after watching Sam's tape, I really really wanted Baker.

    I hear literally everyone saying Darnold is the right guy though.. so I guess i'll run with that.
     
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  14. MoProblems96

    MoProblems96 Well-Known Member

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    Well I certainly don’t think I would go as far as saying I don’t think he’s good, but concerns about his play in the pocket is definitely warranted. I don’t think anyone is trying to mask it either. There’s a reason people, not just fans on a message board, have been saying that this guy probably needs to sit and get a lot of stuff worked out before he becomes a full-time starter and a good one at that.

    His ridiculous ability on the move plus his size, work ethic and brain give me plenty of confidence that he’s going to be very very good.
     
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  15. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Baker doesn't have good footwork either ... must've been those wide open receivers you saw running down the field.

    But Darnold needs as many reps as humanly possible. Sure don't trout him out week one, but I would give him at least 4 to 6 weeks ... this is why I hope Teddy can play.
     
  16. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    I'm not worried about Darnold's pocket presence at this point. He definitely needs some work on some of the fundamentals however I think that's true of a lot of the high picks of recent years.

    When the NFL went to routinely drafting juniors at QB it added in a requirement to teach more at the professional level. Offsetting that is the fact that the passing game has become more forgiving over the years, with changes to defensive rules usually favoring the offense.

    Darnold is not a Matt Ryan type prospect. He isn't highly polished and refined at working in the constraints of a pro set offense. He does however have a lot of experience working in USC's pro set and showed enough there to make a strong case for himself as an NFL franchise QB prospect. He won a lot of games over his two seasons as a starter and set some school records in the process. When you're the first guy to pass for 4,000 yards in a season at USC it means something. Lots of guys have played QB there and Darnold put up two of the best seasons a Trojans QB has ever had.

    I think the Elway comparison is a reasonable one and that maybe to be more fair Darnold is probably where Elway was going into his last year in school - a great prospect with some flaws that need to be corrected before he achieves NFL stardom.

    Elway also was much better on the run than in the pocket and he also had the hero impulse dominating early in his career. He tended to make big plus plays and boneheaded blunders. This is why Dan Reeves took such care in how he used him the first season. When Elway was doing ok he left him on the field and when he made a big mistake he took him off to think about it for a series or two.

    The Jets have at least two QB's who can play at this point and with a little luck they will have TeddyB also. This is a rare opportunity to cushion a young QB's entry to the NFL.

    Darnold was sacked 8 times by the Ohio State defense in the bowl game. That's the kind of result that should never be allowed to happen this year. If the defense clearly has the Jets offensive line outmatched McCown should be in the game for a lot of those snaps to save wear and tear on Darnold. There are some times when it is better to have your rookie on the bench learning instead of on his back on the turf over and over again.
     
  17. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    Pennington (shrugs)? He has repeatedly said that he has no interest, though.
     
  18. Mauldinthebeast

    Mauldinthebeast Well-Known Member

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    I heard he’s been keeping two hands on the ball. A simple change, but it’s still an improvement.
     
  19. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    Growing up listening to Bill Walsh's QB evaluations (you know, back in the 1980's and 1990's, when you could mail-order VHS tapes from NFL films or some such. and I read everything I could get my hands on), and Bill was obsessed with footwork, so it became the first thing I looked at with any QB prospect.

    It has served as a really good indicator, for the most part--I was sure Brees was going to be good coming out, I thought Aaron Rogers would be much better than Alex Smith, the first time I saw Romo play (never saw him in college), I knew he was going to take the Cowboy's starting gig and keep it, and I thought Carson Palmer had all the tools to be the greatest QB ever to play in the NFL (injuries are a bitch).

    But footwork has also led me astray. Joe Flacco and Cam Newton have been successful despite pretty awful footwork. Tom Brady's throwing mechanics are immaculate, but his footwork is not--and it gets worse when he gets hit more than about three times. Mark Sanchez's footwork wasn't perfect, but considering how little college experience he had, it was REALLY good. His second year it was even better, probably top 8 or top 10 in the league. Then it went to hell quickly after that--I blame WFH.
     
  20. Can Grande

    Can Grande Active Member

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    I think it's fair to say that SD needs to improve when executing from the pocket. Right now the best part of his game happens outside the pocket either when that's the play-call but also when he's forced out and has to improvise. Thing is the pro game is a much more structured and precise platform than what you see even in big school programs. Improvisional skills are of course great to have, but there is little scope for sandlot football at the NFL level. Unless a guy is or can learn to be good in the pocket he will be limited. Darnold is 6'4" so he should have no trouble seeing the field and he has NFL caliber arm strength so he should be able to get there. But it remains job 1 IMO.
     
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