Offensive line

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by matt robinson 17, Aug 28, 2017.

  1. mr nyjet

    mr nyjet Well-Known Member

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    which leaves us with a question: would mangini make a better gm than mccagnan?
     
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  2. mr nyjet

    mr nyjet Well-Known Member

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    once again, like in 1997, we may see college qb elect to stay in school, just to avoid getting drafted by the jets.
    or, pull a john elway/eli manning senario and just refuse to sign/demand a trade.
     
  3. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for bringing this up, I considered making a thread about it but I figured it was not worth the aggravation.

    I don't know many teams that have brought back former HC or FO, but history has proven that Mangini could make a better GM.

    He and Mike T did a good job of taking a philosophy and making it a reality.
     
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  4. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Red,

    Sorry, it was late, I had several drinks and my sarcasm filter was already asleep! LOL

    The list I made was good offensive players and the best offensive players available at the points in the draft where the Jets drafted. That doesn't necessarily mean that they were the best players available at the Jets' picks. They may have been, but since we can't see the Jets' draft board, we'll never know. I wouldn't doubt if some were. In order to keep Bowles happy, Mac may have reached for some of the defensive players he did. It certainly seems he took players that were a need or fit the Jets' system or even reached for players at times when he took players in the middle and lower rounds rather than taking the BAP. He seemingly reached for Hack. We know that Idzik reached for McDougle.

    So with that said, imo it's hard to say what we need to do in the 2018 draft. Whatever approach Mac has been taking, whether it's been BAP in his mind or reaching for players out of need or whatever, it's only partially working, and the bottom line is that the offense for all intents and purposes, has been ignored for over 10 years. The team will never win consistently without at a quality starting-caliber QB. They'll probably never get to or win a SB, without a franchise-caliber QB. They'll also probably never get above mediocrity if they don't upgrade the OL and add some serious playmakers on the offensive side of the ball. It doesn't matter if they build a D better than the '86 Bears or any other great D you can name, and smashes NFL records, unless our D can completely shut down or outscore the opponents' offenses.

    This most recent draft is interesting because I think it supports both our points of view. In the 1st round he stayed put and took the consensus BAP in Adams. (Some here would say that the BAP was Mahomes because of the importance of QBs, and the Jets' glaring need at the position). Others wanted Mike Williams, Dalvin Cook, Leonard Fournette, a CB or Malik Hooker. Some thought Mac should have traded down in the 1st and taken either Ramczyk, OJ Howard, Christian McCaffrey or Derek Barnett.

    In the 2nd round, he stayed put and seemingly took the player he/the Jets thought was the BAP, even though that meant taking safeties back to back. Most fans were upset by that and thought he should have gone in another direction.

    In the 3rd round, he traded down. Even in doing something in this most recent draft that some of us have been saying the Jets' GM has needed to do for years (trade down to add additional picks to try to more quickly fill some of our holes/needs, he bypassed players that were huge needs and probably BAPs at that point in the draft. Some fans as well as someone on the Jets thought Mac should have traded up and taken Alvin Kamara, who was a great offensive playmaker, but RB wasn't that big a need, and we really couldn't afford to burn picks moving up. After trading down, he took arguably one of the two best WRs remaining (the other was Chris Godwin). He could have taken Anthony Garcia (OT) there, as some of us wanted. Stewart looks like he's going to be a very good player for us. It will be interesting to see who turns out to be the better player from among those 3 or those that followed. Was Stewart the BAP available at that point of the draft, or was it more of a need pick and a player who the Jets liked his character and work ethic?

    In the 4th round he traded down twice, and in fact traded out of that round altogether. He garnered additional picks, but skipped players that were good prospects that could have addressed needs. Samaje Perine was taken by the Redskins at our pick. He is more of a power back, something I believe that we need, especially with our OL. Immediately after our pick, Dorian Johnson, an OG was taken by the Cardinals. I knew and still know nothing about him, but he perhaps could have helped upgrade our OL depth if nothing else. With the next pick, the Bengals took Carl Lawson, an edge rusher. I don't think he would have fit our 3-4 base, but is a player similar in size and ability to Kony Ealy. (Lawson 6'2", 260; Ealy 6'4", 275) Further down in the round was an OT, Julie'n Davenport, that was a pretty good prospect. Was getting an extra 6th round pick or two worth missing out on some other players that could help our team more than a pair of 6th round CBs?

    NE drafts players that will fit their systems that have the work ethic and talent that they're looking for. They don't draft by BAP. The Steelers are probably THE most stable sports franchise in all of sports. They have been family owned. They have a culture that wasn't abandoned even when they have gone through some rough stretches. The have knowledgeable men making the decisions and they are patient. Seattle doesn't have the longevity of the Steelers, but they have topflight men who own and run the team. Cincinnati has had a questionable HC for years, but they've had a great GM and knowledgeable ownership that has kept them on an even keel and patient.

    In a situation where both units were balanced and both sides had been addressed in the draft on a yearly basis, then yes, I agree with you that the best approach would be to go BAP. The problem is that you, I, and every other Jets fan knows that isn't the case. The offense has been almost totally ignored. That, imo, supersedes all. It has to take precedence imo. There are a number of reasons imo why that is so.

    One, in today's NFL the Jets will never even reach a .500 level of play if they keep ignoring the offense. Two, they will never attract any quality HC candidate or quality FA skill position players if they continue to just go BAP and take defense. Three, as important as getting a stud pass rusher is (and I've been hollering about it since before we drafted Abe), it isn't more important than fixing the offense. We have very few players on offense that could start on any other NFL team. In fact, I'll bet that a lot of the players we'll keep on offense couldn't even make a lot of other NFL teams' rosters. Four, the Jets don't need another Revis-level CB. If we get an honest-to-God, NFL-caliber offense that can score points and with the D that we already have, we should win a lot of games, and probably be a playoff team. If we add a stud pass rusher to that D along with having a real NFL offense, we should be a perennial playoff team that has a real shot of getting to a SB. Five, if the Jets don't start addressing the offense, I think we'll wind up with a fractured dressing room. The players know where the team's priorities and interests lie. They see where the big FA $s and high draft picks are going. The offensive players could very easily start resenting the defensive players, tensions build between the two groups and then we have a REAL mess on our hands.
     
    #44 NCJetsfan, Aug 29, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
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  5. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying it's not important, but with such a low talent level at other offensive positions, if the goal is to get a top draft choice next year, how is having a good O line going to help?
     
  6. pdxdrew

    pdxdrew Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  7. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Agree 1000%.

    And I agree with what Kurt said:

    "The offense in general should be prioritized next..not just OL. The skills have been barren outside a few mercenaries & role players for far FAR too long.There have been many more years w. solid OL than there have been w. top end game changer. We haven't had a truly dynamic offense since 98. I'm not sure you can you win in the trenches in todays game. Until the running game has greater meaning than the last 5 minutes of either half or defenses catch up to basketball on turf the OL while crucial currently does nothing more than allow the skill players to make big plays downfield."

    The first pick they make next year MUST be a FQB, or - if they've fucked up and landed themselves in draft purgatory and outside the reach of a FQB - a FRB. They need a DIFFERENCE MAKER on offense! Having one reduces/eliminates a host of other problems. I know NC doesn't agree, but if McCaffrey were on this team he would allow the QB to have more time to operate because of the threat he represents. And really, are you SURE you wouldn't take Mahomes right now, even if it meant not having Adams?

    But it's very clear that Macc & Co. are out of their depth. They don't have a clear plan, nor apparently any ability to fix this offense in a league driven by offense. At the end of this travesty of a season, Macc & Co, need to be gone. And hopefully during the season a Pres. of Football Ops is hired to oversee a TRUE resurrection - not just rebuilding, because that implies you once has something built - of this franchise. I would strongly suggest that they go back to their roots, when they were called the JETS for a reason: because it implied a high-flying, fast moving team, not a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" offense dependent on a supposedly impregnable defense because there is no such thing in today's NFL. Let's get someone who knows how to build such a team as they they had under Werblin and Weeb. Maybe they wouldn't win the SB, but they would sure get there and be entertaining as hell.
     
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  8. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    The goal isn't just to get a top draft choice next year. It's also to evaluate the young players on our roster, especially Petty and Hack, and determine who can help us/what our needs will be moving forward. If Petty or Hack prove to be a reliable, quality starting QB the pressure won't be so great to get a top 3 pick or take a QB. They probably still should, because one can never have enough good QBs, and if both develop, you can always trade one for at least a #2 if not #1 pick in a future draft.

    With the OL playing at the level it is currently, not only are all our QBs likely to wind up on IR, but it will be impossible for them or the young WRs to develop or the team to get a true read on them.
     
  9. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    You're right, I still don't agree about McCaffrey. With this OL I think he would be almost totally neutralized and ineffective as a RB, and would only have value as a receiver. The difference between Powell and McCaffrey and maybe even McGuire and McCaffrey isn't that big and wouldn't make that much a difference in the offense's play. I think Adams play will make a huge difference in how the entire D unit plays.

    In terms of Mahomes and Adams, I'd take Mahomes at this point IF we had a different coaching staff because QB is so much more important than safety. With Bowles here (and maybe Morton), I don't think Mahomes would be looking as good, much less have a chance to start. Even if he did, he'd probably wind up getting his throwing shoulder trashed behind our OL. Normally one needs to get the FQB whenever one can, but if one doesn't have a good OL and doesn't plan to fix it with quality players, then it's almost pointless to have a FQB because he isn't going to last long.
     
  10. tomdeb

    tomdeb Well-Known Member

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    Nice post. Not sure if I would say that OL will be top priority. It should be. However, Mac the Nut does NOT like drafting OL at all and none before round 5.
     
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  11. boozer32

    boozer32 Well-Known Member

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    You can continue to band aid this team but eventually you will need some talent . The Jets have talent in abundance on the defensive side. Imagine if the entire team was constructed like that. That is what we have been asking for.
     

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