Mike M. has to go

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by jets12, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. grkmanga31

    grkmanga31 Well-Known Member

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    Maccagnan came away from the 2015 draft with big cat, and petty (who in my opinion, is a very solid backup QB) but I would like for him to get a fair shake to see starter time this year, and it will happen. 2016 1st and second round picks may not amount to anything in lee and hack. That to me is enough to seriously question what Macc is doing. He has a knack for finding undrafted free agents who make plays but he has also ignored o line. He signed Wilkerson over Harrison and although I get why, that move was terrible given MO's production. The season is long, a lot can change, lee hack and Wilkerson may show up, petty may become the star of the team, but if I'm a betting man I'm not betting on them to do so in the state this team finds itself. I find it hard to argue Macc has deserved the right to hand pick his own HC.

    Assuming both are let go, the Johnson brothers better learn from these past 3 years and allow the GM to actually conduct the HC search and not hire them separately. Also, don't bother hiring advisors or looking for former NFL executives to help you. I've mentioned it already, John Dorsey is home not hired by any team. He made a mistake making it known the chiefs really wanted Mahomes, but that pales in comparison to missing on first round picks, second round picks, overpaying for a career backup, etc.


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  2. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Based on what we've seen, I wouldn't say that Mac doesn't have a plan. Instead, I'd say that he doesn't have the right plan. I think his plan has been a continuation of what has been going on here...i.e., to fix the D first since it was closest to being set while gradually adding a piece here and there to the offense. Then once the D is set, he'll focus on fixing the offense.

    It may be that Woody (under Parcells' influence) made an organizational decision to build one of the top Ds in the NFL and is trying to win with D. Otherwise, why continually hire former DCs to be the HC? That could also explain why all the GMs over the last 20 years focused so heavily on D and by and large ignored the offense.

    That probably is giving Woody too much credit, however. More than likely, I think that's just how things have happened. If memory serves me correctly, the best HC candidates (or the ones that Woody liked best) that have been available when the Jets were looking for a HC were all former DCs, so it's just a matter of chance or Woody's cluelessness that he has continued to hire HCs on the same side of the ball, and didn't realize that the offense was being ignored.

    I think that in general, GMs try to work with their HCs and give them what they want/need, but experienced GMs keep a more balanced perspective. Since we've had nothing but novice GMs for the last 20 years, and two of which were not qualified to be GMs as they had little or no experience in scouting and personnel, and our HCs have been former DCs with strong personalities (up until Bowles), the focus has thus been almost solely on the defense.
     
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  3. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Well, that might qualify technically as a "plan", but it's not really a blueprint for building a winning franchise, which is what's really needed. Macc's approach is more like patchwork. And I can see where that might've worked if the Jets really possessed the talent most people assumed they had three years ago, but when it became obvious last year that they didn't, Macc should've revised his thinking. Of course Woody probably constrained him, but still, in looking at his approach in this past off-season I just don't see a coherent plan. Load up - AGAIN! - on "D"; dig for scraps that might be worth something. Did not address the OL - and I'm not mentioning QB since he obviously is so invested in Hack - did not substantially upgrade the offensive skill positions (might've improved it somewhat with his later picks, but the jury's out...he sure didn't grab a stud RB or WR) - didn't get a stud pass rusher. These were all glaring needs that deserved addressing first IMO. Or, maybe his "plan" was to go all in on the tank and he obviously couldn't admit that, so he figured "Why not grab two great Safeties, even if I don;t upgrade the offense, because A) It won't matter anyway; and B) It would only impede the tanking process". If that was his plan, I can't argue, but I don't believe it was.

    I guess as a fan, I want to understand what the Big Picture for this team is. I don't understand what that has to be Top Secret. I get that a GM can't divulge specifics, like "We're after this player, or that player" (Like what Dorsey did apparently that got him fired), but laying out what you want the team to look like shouldn't be a problem. The secrecy smacks of CYA more than anything else. As a fan, if I understood what he was trying to do I would be more tolerant, but left in the dark, I'm going to reach for the light switch.
     
  4. ChrebetCrunch

    ChrebetCrunch Well-Known Member

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    Nothing? He acquired Brandon Marshall for the equivalent of moving from a 5th round draft pick to a 7th. He traded a locker room cancer for a 2nd round pick and Jermaine Kearse. He has also made bad decisions, but he did a lot more than nothing.
     
  5. grkmanga31

    grkmanga31 Well-Known Member

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    He is a lot more of a mixed bag versus Bowles, which is why some people aren't so keen on automatically getting rid of Macc.

    I used to be a Macc supporter but I just don't think he's done enough, especially within the first 1-3 or 1-4 rounds of each of his drafts to warrant the ability of getting another crack at it. A team is supposed to be built on the talents of the draft picks from rounds 1-4, Macc has had a lot of whiffs in those rounds and this is partly why we don't have the talent on this roster. Devin Smith, Lorenzo Mauldin, Darron Lee, Hack may all be whiffs and that's a lot of bad decision making that instantly steals talent away from your starting lineup. Factor in the decision making with free agency and it really muddies the picture. That's not to say everything he's done is wrong, I just don't know if extending confidence in a middling GM is worth it when the stakes are as high as they are going into 2018.
     
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  6. ChrebetCrunch

    ChrebetCrunch Well-Known Member

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    I have felt from year 2 of Macc's tenure that his moves were far sighted. He purposely did not address the OL in 2017 because of how weak the draft class was. He did see an opportunity to shore up the secondary with a tandem who have the potential to be the best in the league in a few years.

    I felt going into this season that Bowles was told that he has the 2017 to demonstrate that he is either going to be part of the 2018 massive rebuild, or part of the scrap heap. What head coach would come here anyway? 2018 is an entirely different situation with 80 million of cap space, a high #1 draft pick, three picks in the top 62, and the foundation of a defense. I have no idea if a Sean Payton will be available, but he would be a perfect fit for 2018, and maybe Macc knows something that we don't.
     
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  7. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    It could well be that you're right...I hope you are actually. But I see no real evidence that he has a plan beyond "BPA" and bargain shopping. That said, that really doesn't make any sense, so I have to assume there IS some "vision" that he's working on, but assuming that's true, why is it a state secret?
     
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  8. ChrebetCrunch

    ChrebetCrunch Well-Known Member

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    That's why he frustrates me. I don't know if he the smartest GM or the dumbest GM. Bowles doesn't frustrate me because I have zero expectations.
     
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  9. jilozzo

    jilozzo Well-Known Member

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    well elway has done Ok in denver and it remains to be seen with lynch in SF.......going the way of an ex player may be an option provided he has some kind of educational background that supports a GM position.
     
  10. Kris 15

    Kris 15 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, let's fire the GM every 3 years. That'll put us on the fast track.
     
  11. twown

    twown Well-Known Member

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    Mac's plan is to draft some great players and then build the team accordingly. He wants to have a fast, aggressive defense that's stops the run and gets after the passer, blah blah. On offense he wants a balanced attack with a skilled QB, talented weapons and a solid front five, blah blah BLAH!

    The reason it doesn't appear that he has a plan is because he sucks at drafting great players. Naturally when your drafts are bad, whatever "plan" you had is going to look like finger-painting. Our players suck ass. So the plan means fuck-all.
     
  12. jcass10

    jcass10 Well-Known Member

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    While I definitely think Mac has done a better job than Bowles, I dont think one can survive here without the other.

    Given his track record, would anyone be here with Mac picking his own coach and QB to develop? I dont think he's earned that at all.

    I actually think Mac has a decent eye for talented players, but I dont think he quite understands the value of positions in the grand scheme of a football game. I'm just spit balling, because he's found some late round talent, but there is just something off about what he's done here.

    Like, I think he's done a solid job, but certainly not good enough to guarantee him 3 more years with his own coach.
     
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  13. CBG

    CBG Well-Known Member

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    I know MAC did not pick his coach but he sure as hell picked his QB in the second round last year ! Jury is still out but they are coming back soon and it appears he MIGHT HAVE blown that pick, possibly badly ! Especially when he could of possibly had Hack in the 3 rd or later round !
     
  14. grkmanga31

    grkmanga31 Well-Known Member

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    Although I generally agree that stability is the better option, keeping macc on, for say another 3 years may end up horrifically. Look at how he spent all that cap idzik saved up, the results were an almost playoff season and a diabolical 2016. It's funny to me because I actually think mac does better picking later round talents, or undrafted talents versus high picks. He's had a number of question picks at the top, and that may become even more magnified as the season progresses. But regardless, it's not like giving a GM 3 years isn't reasonable enough to have a fair assessment as to what he's done. The proof is out there on the field and if that's the case than the product is obviously not up to standard.


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  15. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I mean Idzik traded Revis for a first and fourth round pick that he turned into Sheldon Richardson and also traded a 4th round pick for our best offensive player in Chris Ivory that year. Damon Harrison was also elevated to the active roster.

    Even blind squirrels find a nut here and there.
     
  16. forevercursed

    forevercursed Well-Known Member

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    Sheldon Richardson isn't a locker room cancer. He's a tremendous defensive player who can be immature at times. But he tries unlike Mo Wilk who has quit on the Jets. That's a locker room cancer. An apathetic quitter,
     
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  17. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Yes. It feels like Marshall was the cancerous part of that whole situation after all.
     
  18. PulseJet

    PulseJet Well-Known Member

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    Positives for Mac:
    Seems to repeatedly execute decent trades. The Seattle trade was good and fair for both parties.
    Seems to be able to get contributing players from the unsigned pool and waiver wire: Anderson, Ealy

    Negatives for Mac:
    Drafts have been mediocre.

    Generally, I wouldnt move on Mac UNLESS I had someone who was unarguably an upgrade. Someone who has proven they can build a roster and identify talent, particularly at the QB position. The big risk would be dumping Mac without having a replacement and getting someone worse. The Jets will do that for sure.
     
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  19. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say Rex Ryan was a good coach, but HELL. He is certainly better than Todd Bowles!
     
  20. PulseJet

    PulseJet Well-Known Member

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    He is light years better. Still not good, otherwise he wouldnt be on the TEEVEE. But Bowles is much much worse.
     

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