MIchelle Carter Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter

Discussion in 'BS Forum' started by jetophile, Jun 16, 2017.

  1. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    http://www.wcvb.com/article/judge-set-to-announce-verdict-in-texting-suicide-case/10031425
    Funny how psychiatrists shovel anti-depressants like candy, get kickbacks for prescribing, and then a psychiatrist says that an anti-depressant fueled her actions. I am in no way excusing this twisted bitch, but I know a lot about Breggin. He's on a mission. There is nothing completely scientifically supportive to what he said, but he lives to fukk Eli Lilly hard with a five hundred foot long pole, and for that, I salute him. Pill pushers shouldn't be allowed to have it both ways, and that was the reason for his testimony. Believe it.

    She'll get probation.
     
  2. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I haven't read enough about this and the legal reasoning of the conviction, but I'm bothered that someone could choose to take their own life and a third party can be convicted of manslaughter simply because they didn't give a shit to stop them.

    Every day we find new reasons to blame others and not assume personal accountability for our own choices.
     
  3. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    She's a disgusting bitch. I thought what you thought at first but read more, holy shit. She deserves it. We're not talking about a simple "not giving a shit to stop him" or even a message or two here! She went above and beyond and then some.
     
    #3 BrowningNagle, Jun 17, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
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  4. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    ^Yeah, it's definitely an interesting case. Probation or overturned on appeal, she's not going to jail. At first she was encouraging him to get help, but then kept egging him on. He got out of the truck when he was getting sick/dizzy, and she told him to get back in and finish the job. I think that crosses the line of failure to act, but it's certainly a slippery slope.
     
  5. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    These were two twisted kids, this sentence from the story above is the one that presents a problem for me:

    "An involuntary manslaughter charge can be brought in Massachusetts when someone causes the death of another person when engaging in reckless or wanton conduct that creates a high degree of likelihood of substantial harm."

    It is a stretch for me to conclude that she "caused the death" of the guy. Not trying to stop his attempt does not seem to rise to the threshold of causing it nor does her encouragement of what he was doing to himself. I think this one gets reversed on appeal.
     
  6. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    This is how I feel as well. We can all agree that she's a horrible human being, but did she cause his death? Are we really going to argue that people are so week minded that they are incapable of not making a choice opposite of what another person suggests or demands. just because the demand was made doesn't equate to the demand being the cause of human decision making. Isn't that inherently what sets humans apart from lower rungs on the evolution chart?

    I don't feel bad for her. She created a situation in which this was a potential outcome; I'm more afraid of the legal precedent this sets which will then get expanded and abused.
     
  7. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    Geez, think of all the mean things I said to barcs and phillystackz
     
  8. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    The problem isn't that she didn't try to stop him. Had she seen his texts and ignored them, she wouldn't be in legal trouble. It's that she deliberately egged him on.
     
  9. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    The question is "Who caused the death?" I maintain that while her actions may have contributed, the victim caused his own death. Can two people both be the cause of the death? I don't know precisely how the statute is worded but the quote above would indicate there is no room for more than one person to be responsible.
     
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  10. The Waterboy

    The Waterboy Well-Known Member

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    More than one person can be the cause of another's death, just like in a robbery gone wrong where someone gets shot and dies, even a get away driver, who did not pull the trigger, can be charged in the death. The question is how much weight to put on her involvement.

    Being he had mental issues, and she was aware of these mental issues, I think that plays a big factor here. That and the fact she was constant in her pressure on him to kill himself.
     
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  11. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    As I said, the precise wording of the law is the key factor here and I don't know what that is or how that state treats contributory actions.
     
  12. The Waterboy

    The Waterboy Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure this will work it's way through the appeals courts so we'll have to see what their interpretation is. Unless she only gets probation, then they might not bother.
     
  13. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    She now we are going to hold a girl with no psychology expertise to a standard of a psychology expert who should know the extent of his psychological problems and be held accountable for failing to behave in accordance? That's a ridiculous standard the court would require an unqualified person to live up to. That should be the simplest angle for a defense attorney to destroy that argument. There is no legal way she can be punished because he had mental problems.
     
  14. The Waterboy

    The Waterboy Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you need to be a psychology expert to realize a person that has previously tried to kill themselves and continued to say they are going to kill themselves, just may kill themselves if you keep telling them they should.
     
  15. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    in court, only an expert can testify to the psychological condition of someone, but the average person is simply unqualified to speak knowledgeably of psychological conditions. If the average person isn't deemed capable of evaluating someone's psychological condition they sure as hell can't be held responsible for not understanding someone's psychological condition. Whatever opinion she would have of his condition would hold no weight.

    What can you ask her about his condition that is meaningful? She could simply reply she thought his behavior was for attention and he wouldn't actually do it. That's a valid opinion because only a psychological expert could refute that his behavior was otherwise. Considering she's not an expert she wouldn't be expected to identify whether his behavior was actually suicudal and therefore she can't be held responsible for something she isn't expected to have the expertise to know.
     
  16. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I was torn on whether the conviction was correct and I'm thinking it's not. She's a horrible person, but should the precedent really be set that if you say 'go kill yourself' and if happens then you're responsible?

    I get that it was a lot deeper than that, but still. I've read several statements from law experts and professors that feel as though the ruling was incorrect.

    Fucked up either way that that poor kid is dead. Regardless of if she does time or not she's going to live a fucked up rest of her life.
     
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  17. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    I thought there was a text by her to him that "encouraged him to finish what he started when he decided to back out of his suicide attempt" she told him to "go back in the truck and finish it"!

    That's not someone who is innocent with regards to someone else's mental instability, if that's the case then she did have a part in helping him commit suicide.

    That's what got her in trouble!

    Once Mr. Roy drove his truck to a remote spot at a Kmart parking lot, the two ceased texting and instead talked on their cellphones. When Mr. Roy, with fumes gathering in the cab of his truck, apparently had a change of heart and stepped out, the judge said, Ms. Carter told him to get back in, fully knowing “his ambiguities, his fears, his concerns.”


    “This court finds,” the judge added, “that instructing Mr. Roy to get back in the truck constituted wanton and reckless conduct.”
     
  18. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    If I tell you to do something and you don't, is it criminally wanton and reckless behavior if you ignore it?
     
  19. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    i think circumstances have a something to do with it, if your my boss and I say no, it may be insubordination.

    If your my dad and I say no, I may get punished by losing my phone privileges.

    If your a cop and I'm not cooperating with your request, I might get shot.


    You see how circumstantes affect the outcome? It's not a blanket application of the law, circumstances dictate how the law and the spirit of the law is applied.
     
  20. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    I find it amazing and counter-intuitive that anything a teenage girl says rises to the level of involuntary manslaughter. That said, several girls have committed suicide after being bullied by other teenage girls and maybe this sets a precedent that Mean Girls is now a potentially actionable offense. That would be a silver lining out of an otherwise completely screwed up situation.

    I do think that the last communication between Carter and Roy was cause for action, however I think that action should have been in the mental health arena, since it's clear that Carter has major problems relating to other people,
     

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