Linebackers

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Mainejet, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. Mainejet

    Mainejet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    835
    So Mac has drafted and or signed through FA:

    Erin Henderson
    Bruce Carter
    Lorenzo Mauldin
    Darron Lee
    Jordan Jenkins

    A total of 5 linebackers in two seasons and yet the HC still feels the need to play a DE as a stand up linebacker? Can someone please explain to me what kind of sense this makes?

    The ONLY conclusion I can draw from this is either the GM sucks at drafting or the HC sucks at coaching or BOTH? Either way I think there are some very serious flaws in the front office of the Jets and fans had every right to request their ouster.
     
  2. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    36,670
    Likes Received:
    14,472
    Richardson has been playing as a standup guy on the outside because the Jets were jammed with players on the defensive LOS in 2015 and didn't need the 4th DT most of the time.

    In 2016 the Jets ran into the fact that their only real NT was allowed to leave and they had to sign somebody to play in the middle because Mo and Richardson didn't fit in the spot and they didn't want to subject Leo Williams to the constant pounding that a NT takes. That again left no room at the inn for the 4th DT in the Jets plans.

    This is not about the Jets drafting Leo Williams in 2015. That was an absolute must take and we'd be regretting any other choice at this point.

    It's about Richardson being a whackadoodle idiot in his personal life before the 2015 season, a fact that forced the Jets to re-sign Mo at a high price when nobody knocked them over with a trade offer. Richardson playing out of position is bad for the Jets and it's bad for Richardson but that's ALL on Richardson for the choices he made and getting caught making them. The Jets are in a bad situation with him (and Mo) because he chose to be a whackadoodle idiot.
     
  3. jcass10

    jcass10 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    2,726
    Likes Received:
    2,032
    I thought Jenkins looked pretty good the more time he got this year. I also thought Mauldin looked pretty good last year. Ideally, they would play together on the outside with Lee and Harris in the middle.

    Then have Wilkerson/Richardson/Williams rotate at DE, with McLendon (or Simon) in the middle.

    I understand from the teams perspective, it probably isnt that cut and dry as I am making it.

    Maybe Bowles thought Richardson/Wilkerson/Williams were just too talented to have them rotate. Perhaps the idea was its better to rotate Jenkins and Mauldin, than the DE's. Unfortunately, I have no clue.

    Either way, I am hoping for big strides from Mauldin/Jenkins next year. Unless we draft an OLB, I want both guys starting, since I think Richardson will be gone.
     
  4. Jake

    Jake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    15,749
    Likes Received:
    2,361
    Jury is still out on Lee, Jenkins and Mauldin. Too early to say.

    The vets he brought in were merely replacing other depth fodder like Demario Davis and Trevor Reilly, didn't expect much from them to begin with.
     
  5. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    36,670
    Likes Received:
    14,472
    I really think the Richardson at OLB move was about warehousing his talent before the inevitable trade. The Jets couldn't just bench him because it would destroy his trade value. Instead they put him out on the field where people could see his motor and drive and hopefully maintain his value.

    The one thing they chose not to do was play him consistently in his best position, because they already had two guys they were committed to at that position and they trusted both of them to be around in a year or two, not serving a season-long drug suspension.

    It's a really sad situation but it's all on Richardson and his antics in the clubhouse this year just sealed the deal. He's gone and the Jets will be lucky to get a decent pick back for him. The team that trades for him will be holding their breath, because like Santonio Holmes a bargain trade isn't always a real bargain.

    You can be a bad boy in the NFL and get away with it but you need to be a very productive law-abiding bad boy for that to happen. All it takes is one major slip and you're in Josh Gordon-land, watching millions and millions of dollars slide out of your grasp forever.
     
    blackssmagic likes this.
  6. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    22,232
    Likes Received:
    12,243
    LM sucks, Carter and Henderson don't rush the passer. Jenkins played well to end the season, but they need another EDGE rusher that can play on all 3 downs effectively to compliment what Jenkins can bring to the table.

    Lee, has been all over the field, but he's not an EDGE rusher you want him flying over the football field making tackles and covering HB / TE.

    The guy in my avatar could solve those problems. I hope the Jets use Sheldon as trade bait to get back into the first to get him or another EDGE
     
    Jets69 likes this.
  7. Mainejet

    Mainejet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    835
    Why didn't they just go 4-3? That allows all of their DL talent to be on the field and gets Lee involved. The fact is, Lee is not cut out to play in a 3-4. So an exclusive 4-3 makes good sense? What they're doing right now doesn't make any sense?
     
  8. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    36,670
    Likes Received:
    14,472
    You can't go 4-3 with 4 defensive tackles and that's what the Jets have right now. Leo Williams, Mo Wilkerson and Sheldon Richardson are all 3T DT's. Steve McClendon is a 31 year old DT who can play NT.

    If the Jets went 4-3 right now with the talent they have it would probably look like this:

    RE - Lorenzo Mauldin (heavy pressure on him to produce sacks and no idea if he has the goods.)
    3T - Leo Williams
    NT - Steve McLendon
    LE - Mo Wilkerson (extremely high cap figure for a strongside end and lots of pressure to beat big RT's and TE double-teams for sacks.)

    Richardson would still be on the outside looking in because he's not a pass-rushing defensive end and he can't play NT and he's not the force that Leo Williams will be as a 3T.

    If the Jets had kept Snacks and let Mo Wilk go things would be no better because again Richardson is not a 4-3 DE and he wouldn't be that good on the strongside of the Jets defense with a big RT opposite him with TE help available if needed.
     
    Yankjetfan likes this.
  9. Mainejet

    Mainejet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    835
    If Mac's master plan was to trade Sheldon, then Sheldon should have been playing on the defensive line so he can showcase his talents for possible suitors and drive up the cost. That hasn't happened, so once again I have no clue what the hell they're doing?
     
  10. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    36,670
    Likes Received:
    14,472
    You can't play Sheldon Richardson on the DL over Leo Williams and Mo Wilkerson. All you can do is give him rotational snaps when they need a breather and maybe a few more on top of that depending on the game situation. You can't play him at NT, all you can do is line up either Williams or Wilkerson at NT now and then and give him some more snaps that way at 3-4 DE.

    The only way Richardson was going to be a full-time 3-4 DE last year was if the Jets traded Mo Wilkerson during the off-season and due to Richardson's freaky behavior off the field in 2014 and his potential second suspension last year that was never going to happen.

    We're lucky that Leo Williams was there in the 2015 draft. He's the glue that is holding the rest of the dynamic together given Richardson's inability to pull it together and maintain a stable career path in the NFL.
     
    grkmanga31 likes this.
  11. Mainejet

    Mainejet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    835
    I disagree completely, in fact Westhoff brought up going to exclusive 4-3 after about 2-5. He said going to a 4-3 would allow all of the talented defensive players to do what they do best. Sheldon is very clearly not a LB. It looks totally stupid and has not worked.

    All due respect, I'll take Westhoff's advice long before I accept yours.
     
  12. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2016
    Messages:
    15,178
    Likes Received:
    22,332
    Tell that to Vic Beasley.
     
    wewantsapp likes this.
  13. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2015
    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    2,346

    This is the same guy that no team hired to be their HC... please his last few years in the league were at best mediocre and at times he was clearly out coached.
     
    boozer32 likes this.
  14. boozer32

    boozer32 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    5,648
    Likes Received:
    3,829
    The flaw is in the fraud head coach. He's incapable of making adjustment, he's horrible at game planning, he and his staff cannot coach up talent, he has the personality of grass growing and he should have been replaced after the season because it will be brutal watching them this up coming season.
     
  15. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    32,237
    Likes Received:
    30,554
    I was about to bring up Beasley. Williams is a good to great player. But a good pass rushing edge rusher is the most dynamic force an NFL defense can have. Man we sure could use him with our slow plodding defensive lineman.
     
  16. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2002
    Messages:
    9,419
    Likes Received:
    2,238
    Disagree all you want. So-and-so said so, thus it is a valid logic? Simple geometry says otherwise.

    [​IMG]

    Yes, I exaggerated a little bit, but it will be fair enough.

    A is where NT lines up, and C is where QB is. B is the spot for the edge rusher - as anyone can see from this picture, the NT is the shortest guy to the QB. It's a simple geometry, really.

    Traditionally, DEs in 3-4 are not pass rushers. JJ Watt and Bruce Smith are exception, and not the rule. Even smaller-oriented 3-4 DLs - as in Phillips 3-4, for instance - do not attack the QB from [going around the edge] like 4-3 DEs do. They are typically gap shooters; they shoot the gap between OLs, and try to break through from there.

    As such, the requirements for 3-4 DL and 4-3 DL are starkly different.

    4-3 NT is about the closest thing to 3-4 NT analogy. They eat up space in the middle and control the line. [Jason Ferguson when he was with the Jets, for instance.]

    After that, 3-4 to 4-3 plan all but falls apart. 3T undertackle is the gap-shooting DT in 4-3 [Warren Sapp fole] but he lines up over the guard. Quickness is more important than pure speed at that spot. 3-4 DEs line up a bit wider than an undertackle would; Okay. Maybe Mo Wilkerson or Leonard can convert to 3T. Having two is a waste. You can't plug both in there at the same time no matter the situation.

    And there is no equivalent for 4-3 DE in 3-4. Some fucktards do call zone blitz that makes the DE cover the flare area, but that's a rarity and not a norm. Nobody in 3-4 DL can cover the distance from point B to point C in the picture above [in time]. Wilkerson lining up wide out of the tacklebox to rush the QB will make Brady literally roll on the ground laughing. [That is, after burning the defense with a TD pass or two.] So that spot would have to be filled with [Yes.] Mauldin and Jenkins. Ok - you CAN use Wilkerson as the 3T, and Leonard as the [strongside DE], *Or swap them around* but that would be a waste of talent [1] and still doesn't solve the DL problem. [Richardson goes where?]

    Using 3-4 personnel for 4-3 defense is exactly that - hammering square peg in a round hole.
     
  17. Mainejet

    Mainejet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    835
    YES, it is very much so a valid logic. Like I already, all due respect, I will take Westhoff's word for it long before I will yours. Every single DL we have can play any position along the DL and hat is a much better utilization of DL talent than playing the guy at LB. That's stupidity. You attempt to make it sound so black and white, but it is far from it. There's many things like putting players in the best place for hem to do what they do best. Playing a very talented DE at LB is the epitome of hammering a square peg into a round hole.
     
  18. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2002
    Messages:
    9,419
    Likes Received:
    2,238
    Playing DE at LB is stupid. That was the whole point of the stuff above. [Same as forcing 4-3 on 3-4 personnel.]

    Last but not the least, the concept I introduced is not my own delusion either; championships were won with that. [I learned that from many influential materials, including Fritz Shurmur's book.]
     
    #18 Zach, Jan 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  19. Mainejet

    Mainejet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    835
    I agree with this. But let's not forget Mac's role in this? He absolutely fucked up the draft and yielded a usless midget and a guy that still has yet to take an NFL snap. Those players did not help the Jets win a single game this season. I don't know WTF Mac was thinking when he made those SFB picks, but I know I don't want any part of it ever again. Honestly, one more draft like 2016 will put Mac in John Idzik's territory. As far as I am concerned, the guy is DUMB.
     
  20. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    36,670
    Likes Received:
    14,472
    We see the effect sometimes when Mo gets free on the outside and chases the QB but can't catch up to him before he's thrown it away. The 4-3 RE is called a speed rusher for a reason - he's speedy and can catch the QB before he's outside the tackle box.

    I think the solution for the Jets if they went to a 4-3 would be Mo at strongside-end, a better Shaun Ellis, and Leo Williams at 3T. That still leaves no long-term NT and no speed rushing RE with Lorenzo Mauldin and Mike Catapano as maybe the closest fits on the team at the moment. They're only a tenth of a second faster than Richardson but that's all it takes to make the move from B to C in time and to never get close to the QB before he gets rid of the ball somewhere.

    If the Jets were in a Super Bowl now window they could put Leo Williams at NT and Richardson at 3T and live with the pounding that Williams took on running downs to try to win a championship.

    As it is that would just be wearing tread off of his tires on a bad team and it would likely be a bad move. He'd be a dominant NT, particularly as a pass rusher that just completely dominated guards and centers, but he'd also be in Kris Jenkins early retirement territory with the first knee injury happening on any play at random. He'd have to gain 15 pounds at a minimum to really make it work and that would hurt his longevity also.
     
    Footballgod214 likes this.

Share This Page