Josh mccown starting confirmed

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Laxg41, Nov 13, 2017 at 4:13 PM.

  1. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 Well-Known Member

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    Hansen had some pretty decent catches on Sunday, hopefully when the dust settles and 4 games goes, Hansen and Stewart would've shown something.

    I don't mind McCown back again next year, but only for really cheap and I would like 2 drafted QBs to go along with it. This would allow an easier transition into the next year. Or get Cousins and draft a QB in like the 3rd, then you can cut ties with McCown.
     
  2. statjeff22

    statjeff22 2008 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award Winner

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    Except that that's not true. I would love to know how McCown has helped the progression of young receivers. You mean Eric Tomlinson with his 6 catches? ArDarius Stewart with his 5 catches? Lawrence Thomas with his 4 catches? Chad Hansen with his 3 catches? Travaris Cadet with his 2 catches? Neal Sterling with his 1 catch?

    The notion that McCown has helped the receivers is utter nonsense. Kearse and Kerley are long-time veterans. As you said yourself, Anderson was already a known commodity playing with Petty. The only other young receiver that is doing anything with McCown is ASJ, and the fact is that his yards per catch this year is by far the lowest of his career. Why? Because McCown, even in the middle of a career year, still isn't very good.

    There's an old saying that a young QB's best friend is his tight end. There is absolutely no reason to think that playing Petty would hurt ASJ's development. In fact, it could easily help it, since he could get passes thrown to him down the field.

    The idea that because the Jets coaching staff sees these players and refuses to play them that must mean they stink continues to ignore the overwhelming evidence that they are incompetent boobs. Just repeating the obvious point that they hate Petty isn't in any way evidence of anything beyond the fact that they hate him.
     
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  3. Brook!

    Brook! Moderator
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    That is a bullshit excuse my friend. I like all your posts on BS Forum unlike FJF which is pure bs other than his weather reports. Now, let's look at your claim. Young players. Somebody already provided the ages of the WR's. Not taking away from the importance of skill players but without a good QB how are WR's important? Look at Pats. Other than the QB and TE position I say Jets are more loaded. But they will go to Superbowl again and we will suffer another year. QB makes all the difference. Your one aim should be to go get that QB. Okay Bowles wanted to give himself a chance and started McCown. I understand that and I wasn't mad. But dude we are 4-6. Season is over. Time to look at future and see what Hack can do. I don't care about Petty as his contract is ending this year but if we aren't going to see Hack on the field this year when we are out of the playoff race when are we going to see him. Have some perspective man. Come on now. All Bowles is doing is making him look good with an extra win here and there. This is hurting Jets chances of drafting better players and potentially a good QB.

    This isn't Bowles retirement home. Enabling him to kill this team's future is on ownership who made Bowles report to ownership. If Mac had any power on Bowles I would blame Mac. I gotta go now. I love talking football with you.

    @FJF - Just wanted to get your blood boil above. I love you dude. :)
     
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  4. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 Well-Known Member

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    Stewart and Hansen haven't gotten any snaps outside of a few, but Sunday, Hansen had 3 catches so perhaps he's starting to show something?Like I said before, Mac is all over the country scouting QBs, Petty has no future here and last year all we saw was Petty lock onto his initial receiver.
     
  5. Cman60

    Cman60 The Dark Admin

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    Again with the Tebow comparisons? All Macc needs to know is his sham QB competition didn't work out the way he wanted it to. His 2 qbs couldn't beat out McCown because only ONE of them was supposed to. Mackenberg screwed up the plan. Petty never stood a chance and that was obvious with the discrepancy in the snap counts and who got to play with the 1st string. Petty won a game in the league and even if it doesn't make him starting material, he deserved better than being shit on by his HC.
     
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  6. Cman60

    Cman60 The Dark Admin

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    You damn right it is. If you're new to a job, someone has to train you. Someone has to show you how to do that job. Gailey couldn't be bothered for 2 years with mundane shit like developing a young QB. You ever wonder why Gailey "retired" after seeing Macc's youth plan go into effect?

    The franchises that actually take QB development seriously usually achieve that aim and it shows. It may not have been Gailey's job directly to develop Petty and Hack, but it was someone's job on the CS. At least Morton said the kids had ZERO development for the first 2 years they were here. That is a direct shot at Gailey who's track record of developing young QB's is nothing short of legend. So expecting an untrained kid to come in and outplay a 11 year vet is just plain stupid and unrealistic.

    Again, until this Organization takes QB development seriously, it won't matter who they draft or where they draft them. The result will be the same as the other 26 QB's since Namath that have passed thru here on the way to palookaville.
     
    #85 Cman60, Nov 14, 2017 at 4:40 PM
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 4:55 PM
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  7. Cman60

    Cman60 The Dark Admin

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    Actually, both Clemens and Sanchez did manage to hang around with a few teams. Ratliff I think had drug/character issues. None of them you named were ever really developed. Just kinda dropped into the deep end of the pool.

    If they feel as though a young QB is worth developing, do they have the experience to do it successfully? History says they don't. They certainly don't have the HC up to that job. Again, I don't think anyone in the Jet organization with the exception of Morton and perhaps Bates knows what a good QB potential actually looks like. I don't trust Macc's judgement and I certainly don't want Bowles anywhere near the decision making process when it comes to QB's.

    Time will tell with Petty. I could be right, I could be wrong. Who knows what the future holds. Again, this team has to commit to developing any QB they draft or they're doing that young QB a disservice by drafting him. Don't draft a young QB just so you can say you drafted a young QB to pacify the fanbase. You're not doing that kid any favors by drafting him and then neglect to develop him. The worst day in Petty's professional life was the day he got drafted by the Jets. Same goes for Mackenberg.

    The Jet FO/CS can always simply stay the course. Pay for Vet FA's to manage the offense while continuing to invest early and often in the defense. It would be far easier on Bowles and they would be doing young college QB's a favor.
     
    #85 Cman60, Nov 14, 2017 at 4:51 PM
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 5:21 PM
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  8. KurtTheJetsFan

    KurtTheJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    100% agree.

    I’ll go a step further.Woody has always been said to be captivated w the QB position & finding an answer for the franchise.Hes also never been shy about throwing his $ around by means beyond player acquisition and other Spending restrictions;Why not use those “resources” that supposively set the team apart from other franchises by putting some sort of QB specific development system in place which includes scouting the very QBs in question??

    If you put a team of smart QB versed folks in a room & stream line a whole process of identifying/developing/Optimizing QB talent collaborated w the FO/CS maybe this problem goes away. Cause the myriad of scouts/coaches/GMS that have come through since the 70s haven’t been able to figure it out.

    Perhaps we’re beyond the realm of “Primary care” QB scouting/development & need to enter the realm of the board certified specialist in the big city
     
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  9. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Of course we need a QB. But get Hack out of your head. Hack sucks. Worse than Geno. Geno embarrassed himself in games. Hack can't even get into a game. And Bowles wanted him to play. If Hack played like Geno in the preseason, Hack would have started Week 1.

    Now the question is how we get a QB. If the top pick was in play, I'd say tank it out. But it isn't. We lose our last 6, we're 4-12 and picking 4th at best. With our track record drafting and developing young QBs, I think Cousins is our best bet. To get him, we have to show we're competitive, i.e. he comes here and he goes to the playoffs. If we don't get him, then we draft a QB in the 1st round. But there isn't much of a difference between 4th and picking 10th. We just have to take a QB and hope he pans out.
     
  10. Brook!

    Brook! Moderator
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    Who decided that Hack was shit? Did you see him play on the field in a regular season game? Tom Brady was a nobody before he got into the game after Bledsoe injury. Tony Romo was undrafted before Parcells put him in a game due to necessity. Say he is bad as you say. Isn’t it better to pick up higher? So you are telling me it is better to win 1 or 2 more games this year and drop even further down on draft que? Your player development argument isn’t valid my friend. Let Hack play I say.
     
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  11. FJF

    FJF Well-Known Member

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    It was ainge that had drug issues, Ratliff went to Cleveland in the Sanchez trade up.
    You don’t trust macs assessments on qbs but you scream for petty who Mac traded up to draft?
     
  12. FJF

    FJF Well-Known Member

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    That’s really a great idea. Hire a few old coaches and former players and add more scouts to just vet the incoming qb class . Can’t do worse than we have been doing
     
  13. Cman60

    Cman60 The Dark Admin

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    Thanks for that. I knew it was one of them that had issues. I don't trust Macc's assessments on qbs mainly because its always a reach. Macc traded up for Petty who at least has won a game in the NFL. He may have won more but Bowles hates his guts and simply will not play him. Macc was so in love with Mackenberg that he ignored almost every scout in the game and drafted Mackenberg waay too early. Why? Was Macc trying to make a splash in his 2nd year as GM? Now he's in a corner with Mackenberg. So much so that he rigged the training camp/ preseason "QB competition" trying to hand Mackenberg the job. Sounds like a desperation move to me. Especially when Mackenberg spit the bit.

    Now after several high profile maneuvers blew up on him, he's feeling the heat again as the fan base is practically demanding a QB in this draft. Who is traveling with Macc around the country while he's looking at all these prospects? Macc cannot afford another goof with a high dp. I'm not real sure he'll survive drafting BPA-D this time around either without getting torched in the media and Jet Nation. I'd like to think Macc has SOMEONE with him that knows QB talent and potential when he sees it. Someone that Macc will listen to?

    Again, will the Jets spend the time and effort to actually develop any young QB they draft this time? Will this kid wind up like the rest of the young QB's the Jets ruined over the decades with neglect.

    Frankly, I'm hoping the Jets stay the course and keep doing what they've always done. Lease FA Vet QB's on the open market to manage the offense and draft BPA-D early and often. It would be doing college QB's a favor if the Jets just stop drafting them.
     
  14. FJF

    FJF Well-Known Member

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    Ok let’s separate emotion from fact.
    Emotion: mac always reaches for qbs
    Fact, mac has drafted 2 qb ,one of which you are high on. See how that makes your statement hard to digest?
    Emotion: mac tried to make a splash with hack
    Fact: 2nd round picks are not splashy unless there is some sort of game or notoriety to the player selected. Hack is neither.
    Geno was more of a splash pick for a 2nd round and I felt that was over played by the media

    I do agree that this franchise hasn’t really gone all in on a qb as the center of the franchise and have done a poor job keeping up with the trend of the league. Also agree that Mac’s ability to gauge qbs should be questioned, he is 0 for 2 after all.
     
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  15. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 Well-Known Member

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    Don't really like Mac's evaluations in terms of QBs so far, but I think he's got a huge opportunity this season, we owe it to ourselves as Jet fans to see this one through. Jets on a scouting tip have been aggressive in terms of evaluating the college crop. 3 picks in the first two rounds, and they might've actually hit on a pick in Maye in the 2nd. Need for QB is staring themselves in the face.

    Fans want to start to see a tank, but I see a team building built (by Bowles BTW), prime and ready for a young QB to come in. Heck, maybe even thrive if they can make some additions to the offensive line. What does developing a losing culture establish?
     
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  16. Cman60

    Cman60 The Dark Admin

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    Macc has a really small body of work when it comes to drafting QB's. Given that he's only drafted 2, both were reaches. Mackenberg absolutely was a reach and so was Petty. Will Macc reach again or will he play it safe??? I'll take play it safe.

    Macc did try to make a splash by drafting Mackenberg. He had just lost a bidding war with himself regarding Fitz and looked like a complete idiot. How to get the mojo back? Draft the next Jet FQB of course. 2nd rd picks can be flashy if you're dealing with a franchise starving for a QB. Macc gambled on Mackenberg and lost. Gambled so much that he staged a fake "Qb competition" just to annoint Mackenberg the next Jet QB. It didn't work out and in fact, made him look even worse than ever when it comes to QB's.

    Macc needs help when it comes to QB evaluations as it does appear that he's not the most astute judge of QB talent. I just hope someone is nearby on these evaluation jaunts to various colleges. If nothing else, I hope they prevent Macc from drafting the next Mackenberg or even the next Petty. Maybe Macc just shouldn't draft a QB period.
     
  17. KurtTheJetsFan

    KurtTheJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    The one thing I’ll say for Mac is at least he has a prototype he’s gone after..even the guys he was rumored to like all seemed to fit the same mold.He likes pocket quarterbacks w elite drop back movement skills,Big arm down the seam w a top on throws & good height.He also likes guys who made “check with me” hot read throws based on presnap matchup diagnosis at the college level.

    Both of the guys he’s selected lacked any polish or character to their game. Petty might lack football IQ in the classroom & can lack command behind center..Hackenberg has a plethora of issues & would be well served w some time in Canada or Arena given his young age..maybe in 4 years he gets things sorted out & pulls a Kurt Warner..But for now it looks like a very poor 2nd round pick.

    It’ll be interesting to see if he sticks w the same prototype in this draft.The two best suited for it are Rosen & Darnold..might take a Trade up..anyone think Bowles will be pounding the table?
     
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  18. FJF

    FJF Well-Known Member

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    if petty was a reach and mac is such a bad judge of qbs why do you think petty is this hidden gem? i mean, we're haters because we don't think a 4th rd qb from a spread system that really hasn't shown enough to get on the field is going to be good. and yet you are completely rational thinking an over drafted(your words) by a poor qb judge(your words) qb is being nailed to the bench by politics? i like you cman but you're a bit over the top on this one bro.
     
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  19. Cman60

    Cman60 The Dark Admin

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    Time will tell..
     
  20. ChrebetCrunch

    ChrebetCrunch Well-Known Member

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    Zero proof? I watched him play in pre-season and regular season. Next.
     
  21. ChrebetCrunch

    ChrebetCrunch Well-Known Member

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    What are you backing that guarantee up with?

    I didn't say it was a good chance, or that it was a good situation, but he does give the team the best chance to make the playoffs.
     
  22. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    I decided Hack is shit. Sometimes I don't need a regular season game to tell. Hack's preseason performances were without exaggeration the worst I've ever seen from an NFL QB. By your logic, I might a decent NFL QB because I haven't failed in a regular season game.

    With the exception of top picks, QBs taken mid first round as opposed to early first round don't do any better in the NFL. Since the top pick is out of play, we have more to lose (player development, the chance at a free agent QB) than we have to gain. Anyway, if a young QB gets a shot it'll be Petty, or Bowles will lose the locker room. After what Hack did in the preseason, there's no way Bowles can justify starting him over Petty to the other players. I would like to see Petty play a few games this season.
     

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