John Harbaugh, Ozzie Newsome and Ravens.

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by Brook!, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. Brook!

    Brook! 2018 Friendliest Member Award Winner
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    Ravens are a curios case for me. First, let me start with Harbaugh. His first few years with Ravens was dynamite. He made the playoffs back to back for the first 4-5 years and in the end won a Superbowl. Since then Ravens have been mediocre. And supposedly he is paired up with highly regarded Ozzie Newsome.

    Lot of Jet fans have salivated over Harbaugh and Newsome. To some of us Harbaugh was one of the best coaches and Newsome was a genius. So why this mediocrity now for the past 5 years?

    Are Harbaugh and Newsome really what their sticker price says or are they just average like most of the coaches and GM's.

    Here is an article from CBS discussing Harbaugh mostly. What do you guys think?

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...nd-for-stuck-in-the-middle-ravens-more-notes/

    John Harbaugh may be nearing last stand for stuck-in-middle Ravens, more notes
    Ravens fans feeling uninspired by team that's .500 in five years since Super Bowl win


    It's hard to look at what's going on in Baltimore – or what's not going on, to be more to the point – and not see it as, potentially, John Harbaugh's last stand.

    The former Super Bowl-winning coach has two years on his deal, and his status, like the very franchise he is a part of, appears to be stuck perilously in the middle. The Ravens are too old in some key roster spots, with not enough young talent on the rise. They're not good enough to truly compete with the better teams in the NFL (1-5 against winning teams in 2017 while facing primarily back-up quarterbacks all season) and they are just .500 since winning it all five years ago. They have just enough talent to finish ahead of the dregs of the AFC (a deep list in this weak season) and not bad enough to secure a top-10 pick.

    It's not where you want to be.

    The decision to keep embattled offensive coordinator Marty Monrhinweg read like a line in the sand to those in the coaching and front-office ranks after Harbaugh has been pushed to let go of so many other coaches in the past. No matter how much many fans and some in the front office believe superior game planners and play callers are out there, Harbaugh's public message immediately after the season up to today never wavered. He's not firing yet another OC.

    Harbaugh, the son of a coach and the brother of a coach and the brother-in-law of a coach, understands better than most how that fraternity works, and constantly firing your own guys while the personnel department of the Ravens remains virtually unchanged year after year (despite a run of dubious drafts and decisions) isn't going to help your ability to lure and recruit new coaches to your staff. It starts to erode your status among your peers and obscures some of the major underlying issues, specifically a lack of blue-chip players across the board, especially at skill positions.

    Couple the outcome on offense with the with the decision to promote from within at defensive coordinator after the retirement of Dean Pees (Don Martindale moved up from linebackers coach) despite so many qualified former Ravens coaches being available (Chuck Pagano, Steve Spagnuolo, Mike Nolan, to name a few) and it smells like a lame-duck situation. If Harbaugh is going to be gone in a year, then top coaches can catch that sniff and they'll look for longer-term deals elsewhere. And if ownership knows somewhere down deep that sweeping changes are coming in a year, then why take on a bunch of top salaries now only to blow up the staff in 2019?

    If nothing else, the process has left some in these parts feeling less than inspired.

    Thus far, the message has been status quo from the Ravens, at least what little has come out of their camp, and until owner Steve Bisciotti does his annual offseason address that's likely to continue to be how others in the NFL are reading this situation. There are several factors pointing against a quick jump up. Baltimore lacks a haul of top picks in 2018 and any real tradeable commodities. They're also running out of big cap space and are stuck with the huge contracts for Joe Flacco and injured corner Jimmy Smith for another year. Recent draft classes have flashed next to nothing. Their huge needs are at pass catcher and the free-agent class stinks at that spot, while Baltimore's history of drafting receivers is spotty at best.

    So, yeah, they are stuck in the middle with the 16th pick -- again -- and with a coach who isn't quite a lame duck (as he has a contract beyond 2018) but seems to be quacking like one. Hordes of empty seats at vital December games did not go unnoticed by Bisciotti and, as a resident of this city, I can assure you that the football fans here are sick of borderline unwatchable football on the offensive side of the ball. Selling more of the same in 2018 will produce a similar game-day result in the stands.

    Of course, when Breshad Perriman (first round) and Maxx Williams (second round) look like complete busts (combined for 25 catches, 163 yards and 1 touchdown all season) and the veterans signed to bolster the passing game, Danny Woodhead and Jeremy Maclin, combine for 640 receiving yards and three touchdowns all season, a coaching staff of Bill Walsh with Don Coryell as his offensive coordinator isn't going to produce much, either. And with virtually no proven receivers or tight ends under contract for next season, and Flacco appearing in steady decline with injuries mounting in recent years, even the return of some quality offensive linemen from injury isn't going to do much to raise hopes of 2018 being a breakout year on offense.

    Something has to change with how the team is evaluating talent, because similar decisions to those made since last hoisting the Lombardi will only yield similar results. And Bisciotti putting off the macro-level stuff until 2019, and punting in 2018, could have major turnstile ramifications this season. He's got a Hall of Fame general manager in Ozzie Newsome, but one whose recent results haven't been up to his own standards, and an excellent, Super Bowl-winning head coach in his prime who could get a top pro or college job within hours if he was let go, but one who has not been able to secure or develop the type of young, innovative offensive assistants who are all the rage (Adam Gase, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, Matt Nagy, etc.).

    And for all of their considerable expertise and brain power – excellence and stability have been hallmarks of this franchise – the Ravens have missed the playoffs four of the last five years and seem to be sputtering around 8-8 all the time.

    Stuck. In. The. Middle. Again.

    Tough spot to be in, and one with nothing but tricky choices. Personally, I'd extend Harbaugh again – not the one-year, cosmetic extension he got before the 2017 season, but a new pact that truly re-commits the parties long-term. Anything short of that – or a big front office shake-up – will foster the perception the franchise is treading water. And more of the same results in 2018 would leave Bisciotti no choice but to overhaul the team a year from now.
     
  2. GQMartin

    GQMartin Go 'Cuse

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    The other Harbaugh may be out at Michigan with another disappointing season. This may be good news for the Jets if we have one too.
     
  3. Brook!

    Brook! 2018 Friendliest Member Award Winner
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    Talking about John specifically, why didn’t he make the playoffs with a GM like Ozzie? That’s what I am trying to understand.
     
  4. GQMartin

    GQMartin Go 'Cuse

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    Didn’t mean to derail your thread.

    I completely understand your supposition. Frankly, it’s unaccaptable, especially in the same division as Cleveland and Cincinnati.
     
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  5. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    After they won the Super Bowl they were really forced to overpay Flacco. He’s a nice QB, but he eats up way too much of their cap and the talent around him on both sides of the ball has really suffered because of it.

    There’s a lesson there for the Jets but I’m not confident they’ve learned it.
     
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  6. phubbadaman

    phubbadaman Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure about the later rounds as I don't pay too much attention to other teams drafts, but they have missed on a lot of first rounders since they won the Superbowl. Much like the Jets, you see the effect that has on a team over time.
     
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  7. Brook!

    Brook! 2018 Friendliest Member Award Winner
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    That's the thing D.

    Us Jets fans dream for a coach like John Harbaugh, dream for a GM like Ozzie Newsome and dream for an average QB. Ravens seems to have all of these yet no playoffs for the past 5-6 years. And some terrible seasons as well. Like you say. There is a lesson there but not only for Jets themselves. Fans also should pay attention to what is happening in Baltimore imo.
     
  8. statjeff22

    statjeff22 2008 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award Winner

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    As you've both said, the key is to not pay an average QB like he's an elite QB. You're not putting too much of your cap on a Rodgers or Brees because as long as the talent around him is even only good he can take you to the Super Bowl. You don't put it on someone like Flacco or Alex Smith because he can't.
     
  9. johnny

    johnny Well-Known Member

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    This is why the Pats have such an advantage. Brady has consistently taken less money than he is worth and it gives them a leg up. As soon as good but not great QB's get all world money (Flacco, Stafford, Wilson, etc.) it seems that the quality of the team as a whole goes down.

    If I was a top-flight QB I'd like to think that I wouldn't worry about bring the highest paid player. I'd rather have a better OL keeping me standing and helping my post career health.
     
  10. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    No other QB could have thrown such a perfect Hail Mary against Denver for the Bronco QB to completely misplay for the tying TD In that game. They had to pay that brilliance.
     

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