I do like the possibility of using Hightower (relatively) more at OLB in '12 and then more at ILB in '13 after BScott's gone.
Thats the greatest part about Hightower, he can switch within our defense every game. On third downs we can bring in Maybin and Pace at OLB and put Hightower at ILB with Harris over Scott. People hate on Hightowers ability to play in coverage but I think thats one of his more underrated talents. He is a solid zone defender to add. Having him and Harris in coverage is a significant upgrade over last years 3rd down D.
Not a fan of this logic though I get your going off what you've read. I feel ND S Harrison Smith is a 3rd rounder talent wise but he will be drafted in the 2nd round due to the need of a safety by tons of teams and because the class is so weak. Now if a team takes Smith in round 2, may he play up like he's a top 50 pick? Who knows. But the fact is, there'd be no way that if NYJ passes on Smith in round 2 that he'd arrive to them in round 3. If NYJ or whoever likes Hightower early in that 15-20 range....you know what take him. Hightower is a top 25 player as of now so its a minor reach....but if your confident in his ability, take him where you can.
It's only really a reach for a player you really want if he'll still be there with your next pick. The Jets could trade down, but doing so is always a risk of losing out on that player, and does require someone to actually trade with. What if they traded with say the Browns for an extra 3rd round pick, and the Bengals take Hightower? They'd be ridiculed for that decision. I'd be happy to take Hightower at 16 more-so than Upshaw, based on his versatility and skillset. I worry too much that Upshaw will become Bryan Thomas 2.0, which wouldn't be super bad, but not worth where he'd be drafted at.
Here is my question. Rank these players in terms of your preference from a pure OLB standpoint. Use whatever OLB metrics you prefer: Ingram, Upshaw, Mercilus, Perry, Branch, Lewis, Hightower, McClellin.
I am not saying what is right or wrong just what I think the Jets will or will not do. They got blasted for taking Gholsten at 6 and now everybody is saying Upshaw shouldn't be a top 20 pick and Hightower is a late first round/early second round pick. I just don't think they will make another first round pick that will open themselves up for another media onslaught..I don't..we will know in a couple of weeks if I am right or wrong.
As the "other poster" who was borderline trolling as you call it... I take offense to that. What is your definition of trolling? I always assumed it was someone who is not a true Jets fan or someone who is only here to put down the Jets. I have been on this site since 2006 and for the most part have only read and observed, not doing much posting since I didn't feel I was as football savy as a lot on this site. I am, however, a Jets fan since 1965, and an Alabama fan... and when there is a possibility of drafting a good player from Alabama, one that will truly help the Jets I'm all for it. I stated that Hightower would be a good pick and I didn't care where he was drafted just so long as we picked him. I then finished with what I'm afraid will happen, as it has so many times over the years with the Jets, and said they never make premium picks. An over exaggeration, but one that I have seen many times since 1965, and yes, I was expecting someone to bring up Revis, Harris and Mangold since there is always someone on this site who loves to show how intelligent they are. My opinion is still my opinion and I feel I have been a fan of the Jets long enough to state it every 3 or 4 years.
The thing that has hurt the Jet's depth is always trading up and not having enough draft picks. It limits the mistakes you can make, and every team makes mistakes. Are you giving up on Mo Wilk and Wilson? Wilkerson had a decent first season and played the 3-4 DE farly well, too soon to judge, the future looks bright. I don't expect huge #s from a 3-4 DE/4-3 DT. Kyle Wilson struggled his first year and showed a lot of improvement in year 2. I'd be more concerned about NE's McCourty, who had a great first year and sucked, when he played last season. A player regressing isn't good, I like to see improvement each year. Both players were excellent values late in Rd 1 and have bright futures and are the core of the team along with Revis, Mangold, D Brick and Harris. There's no question we need to address linebacker early in this draft.
The talking heads on TV are a good general gauge to compare players but they generally rank them against each other and not in regards to a team or system. That's fine from a talking head and fan perspective. But a team like the Jets will rank the players based specifically on how they fit into their system. Its entirely possible the Jets have him ranked as the 12th best player on their board, as an example. So if he is the highest ranked player on the Jets board at #16 then its a no brainer for the Jets to pick him. Meanwhile the talking heads can go about saying how we reached for him since they had him ranked as the 24th best player. *Disclaimer: I have no insight into the Jets player rankings, this is just an example.
I agree with your point about trading picks incessently and I haven't given up Wilkerson or Wilson however I would say that you don't waste a first round pick on a nickle back. If he had performed as expected they would have never had to bring Cromartie back.
If you have been lurking in this draft forum for that many years , you know I'm a fair level-headed person. I've been a Jet fan for over 30+ years and spent many days at Shea. You can say what you want, I ALWAYS support my opinion with my observations from studying players over their entire career. I take this draft very seriously and if someone has an opinion, which is great , they need to tell us all why they support their POV. People like myself, that have strong opinions, take a lot of heat at times, but I always make it very clear why I feel a certain way. I disagree with good cyber friends like Green Hurricane, BakerMaker, TCGF etc. and we still respect each other. As we get closer to the draft, the amount of trash being posted in this sub forum is starting to get out of control and I'm not going to let it happen. There are many forms of trolling. IMO, one aspect of trolling is making a random comment, without supporting it, to create upheavel in the thread. I'm tired of random comments that make absolutely no sense. I want all of us to have good dialogue in this forum, but expect idiotic comments to be addressed.
Don, that's a good point. IMO, Rex was thinking he needed to add a 3rd CB and Kyle Wilson's value late in Rd 1 was incredible. The addition of Cro wasn't enough and Wilson was too good to pass. We lost to the Colts in the AFC Championship game and it was clear we were short a couple of CBs to get the job done. The pass happy NFL requires at least 3 solid CBs.
There really aren't alot of great corners in the NFL these days. In fact, the top 3 CB's on the Jets depth chart could easily be #1's on a good portion of other NFL squads. It really is a big time asset. The selection of Wilson was truthfully a "best player available" type move. Rex has preached that since he arrived as he learned that is the best way to build a franchise based on his experience in Baltimore. Personally I think it was a fantastic pick. Wilson provides a big time security blanket should Revis or Cromartie go down, and also prevents teams from picking on the slot to avoid Revis/Cro.
gotta say this mirrors my thoughts pretty close. though i would not take barron at 16. if he lasts into to lower first round i would possibly look to sneak back in and go get em. i personally love a trade down scenario but its likely not gonna happen. the prudent thing is too stay put - get their guy - and then watch round 1 evolve. a later trade up is also a possibility like i said if barron or even nick perry are at 30-31 or so u have to make a call. with a stubborn cap going forward - the draft is THE place for the next few years to get it right.
thats not a bad plan but then u have a hole at OLB - imo this is the draft to get not 1 but 2 shiny new LB's early on. one at ILB and 1 at OLB
Kurt, both players, KW & MW were BPA and filled needs. I always make a prediction the day or so before the draft my pick for the Jets. The last 2 years, I hit the position dead-on, both picks I had the wrong player, because I thought Wilson and Mo Wilk would be long gone. In 2010, I predicted the Jets would draft McCourty, the Jet's drafted Wilson. In 2011, I prediced the Jets would draft Heyward, the Jet's drafted Mo Wilk. I loved both of the picks and it couldn't have worked out better.
Mo Wilk was a surprise to me last year, mainly because I was mostly following the offseason through NFL.com and Mo Wilk's name never really came up in mock drafts and whatnot. I have been following this pre-draft more thoroughly, so I'm hoping I have a better grasp of what players the Jets might take at that pick lol. Regarding Rex being all for BPA, is Tanny the same? If so, it'll be very interesting to see what happens if a stud at a position they don't need falls to them lol. Trade back or take the guy as BPA?
FWIW, and take it with a grain of salt, Kiper had Mo Wilk in his top 12. Wilkerson was highly regarded, but coming from Temple may have hurt his stock slightly. I had him going in the late teens to early 20s, so he was a steal in late Rd 1. Just my opinion, I think Rex values BPA over Tanny. I'm not going to say trade back until I see who's available at 16. A solid player almost always falls, just like the past 2 drafts.
The Jets need two things at linebacker going forward: 1) a MLB who can actually play zone/man against tight ends or running backs. If they are taking Hightower at 16 he better be able to at least run with Hernandez/Gronk. No one is covering those guys but you can't have another 270 pound linebacker who has zero chance at staying near tight ends. The Jets need 3 linebackers who can actually move backwards and have a chance at covering someone. 2) A pass rusher who can actually beat a tackle one on one. I don't really see any great pass rusher in this draft, the combination of size, arm length, speed, quickness and the hands to beat tackles one on one. Every single pass rusher is lacking in one of those things. The guy who I think fits the Jets defense best as the 4th down lineman (similar to how suggs is used) is Courtney Upshaw. I know he does not have ideal quickness but he has everything else. He has good size, he has incredible power when he uses his hands, his game speed is clearly better then his practice speed. I do not think Upshaw is going to be a 15 sack a year player but I do think he can excel in this defense. He's great against the run and he has the power and football intelligence to pressure the qb. I do not think that Hightower or Upshaw are the ideal players for their position. But I do think they bring a lot of good things to the table and both would improve the Jets defense immediately.
