Defend Maccagnan

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by King Koopa, Dec 25, 2016.

  1. slimjasi

    slimjasi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    Messages:
    7,113
    Likes Received:
    1,684
    The biggest indictment to me on Maccagnan is the Hackenberg pick. I saw the guy play in college (I watch Penn State every week because my sister went there and my family lives there). He just wasn't good and I criticized the pick at the time.

    The bottom line to me is that you can't pick a player in the second round who isn't capable of getting on the field in his first year . . . especially for a team who has no viable starter in front of him. A second round pick has to at least have a chance of being a significant contributor in his first season.The fact that Hackenberg wasn't even considered a remote possibility to start once Geno got hurt and Fitz continued to shit the bed, should tell you all you need to know about that pick.
     
    Jedi mind tricks likes this.
  2. James Hasty

    James Hasty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    15,793
    Likes Received:
    5,000
    Keep in mind that there was a potential deal for Tunsil on the table and part of the reason we did not pull the trigger was that we wanted to make the Hack pick. If Lee and Hack would have gotten us Tunsil I think we should have made the deal.
     
    Mainejet likes this.
  3. Mainejet

    Mainejet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    835
    http://www.newsday.com/sports/footb...my-tunsil-in-nfl-draft-source-says-1.11743731

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...-giants-draft-laremy-tunsil-article-1.2626930

    That's just two among many that I found with a simple google search. Instead, we ended up with a little, useless twerp for a player. The fact is, if Mac had wanted to get those trades done, he could have easily.

    Number 2: Laremy Tunsil was slated to go number 1 overall, so executing a trade to get him at 10 is not reaching for need, that's getting exceptional value.

    Number 3: YES, there always is team interested in getting back into the 1st if they had wanted, and they could have chosen a Guard or a Tackle and they would have been good value.

    Meanwhile, Darron Lee is exceptionally BAD value given the fact that he was severely undersized at 220 pounds and he's already proven he is miscast in a 3-4 hybrid.

    So now I have presented you with facts that prove what I posted, but yet YOU present NOTHING to the contrary that would indicate I am irrationally, emotionally bitching that flies against the circumstances? Get a fucking grip you dingbat. You sound like a democrat constantly complaining that the Russians hacked the election.
     
    James Hasty likes this.
  4. Mainejet

    Mainejet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    835
    100% accurate and a great post. Bottom line is if Mac haf wanted to get Tunsil, he could have and it would have MUCH better value than Lee and Hack combined.
     
    James Hasty likes this.
  5. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    27,721
    Likes Received:
    31,387
    you said they had a deal in place, yet the link you posted stated
    :But the source said the Jets, who feverishly worked to move up into the high teens after previous trade attempts failed, couldn’t give up enough compensation to make another team budge.

    so, thank you for proving he did not have a deal in place.

    and although politics are irrelevant here and shouldn't be brought up i don't vote democrat thank you.
     
  6. Mainejet

    Mainejet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    835
    Not for long. He'll get shit canned right along with toilet Bowles after the 2017 season.
     
  7. Jedi mind tricks

    Jedi mind tricks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,059
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Firing both will set the franchise back a few more years. I'm willing to be patient at least with Mac
     
  8. Mainejet

    Mainejet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    835
    BULLSHIT. What held up the deal was Mac's unwillingness to trade the Jets 2nd rounder. He wanted to use it on another UPS named Hackenberg. In other words, he could have easily pulled off the deal if he knew what he was doing.

    And you must be a Democrat. You're too dumb to realize facts when you see them.
     
  9. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    27,721
    Likes Received:
    31,387
    the fact is he did not agree to the terms that was asked, there fore there was no "deal worked out" like you stated.
    and stop with the politics and name calling, this is supposed to be an intelligent conversation
     
    HomeoftheJets likes this.
  10. Martin&theJETS

    Martin&theJETS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    4,483
    Likes Received:
    2,517
    You sound triggered. Are you ok? Do you need your safe space?
     
    HomeoftheJets, JetUp325 and FJF like this.
  11. Mainejet

    Mainejet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    835
    Oh, so I need to stop the name calling? Mind you I was having an intelligent debate until you started with the accusations of irrational, emotional bitching. Don't start with me, and we'll be fine.

    But once again, he could have gotten a marquis, coveted, impact player if he had pulled a deal that well within his reach, if he had known what he was doing. Instead, he set the team back.
     
  12. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    14,035
    Likes Received:
    8,637
    That's really stupid and probably should get you benched for a week. There's enough BS about politics elsewhere on this board (even though the category states no politics) that we don't need it here in the slightest. Ask yourself what you hope to accomplish going off topic like this; are you trying to ruin the whole forum?
     
  13. King Koopa

    King Koopa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2003
    Messages:
    4,425
    Likes Received:
    3,054
    If they turn out to be failures who can't get the job done, we are setting ourselves back even further by keeping them...results haven't been pretty so far

    Better to get rid of dead weight sooner rather than later

    Make or break offseason for Macc

    Bowles needs to grow a brain and needs a miracle to survive next season
     
  14. James Hasty

    James Hasty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    15,793
    Likes Received:
    5,000
    The did not give up enough compensation to make the other team budge. That does not mean that the team would not have budged had we given a better offer.

    With that being said we did not "have a deal on the table" because the two teams never had an agreement (that the other team somehow reneged on). During the Brett Favre draft we did have a deal on the table with the Cardinals who chose to turn their backs on us and draft some guy instead of honoring the deal they made with us. There is a very big difference.
     
    FJF likes this.
  15. James Hasty

    James Hasty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    15,793
    Likes Received:
    5,000
    I would have fired Bowles and kept Mac. Since we decided to keep Bowles for another year their fates are now more likely to be the same (good or bad). Unless Mac hits a home run only to have Bowles clearly identify himself as the culprit by screwing it up they will both sink or swim together.
     
  16. championjets69

    championjets69 2008/2009 TGG Darksider Award Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    17,353
    Likes Received:
    866
    Go back to role playing in Star Wars since 4 sure if U want stupid MCC back your brain must be in outer space. Whenever U think of MCC think that he picked Hack of Dak. :mad:
     
  17. stinkyB

    stinkyB 2009 Best Avatar Award Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Messages:
    13,201
    Likes Received:
    11,525
    WTF.... seriously?!?! From the "sources" you posted:

    "According to a source, general manager Mike Maccagnan tried desperately to move up in the order — from No. 20 to as high as No. 7 or 8 — in hopes of stealing the Ole Miss offensive tackle whose top-five draft-day hopes went up in smoke. Literally.
    But the source said the Jets, who feverishly worked to move up into the high teens after previous trade attempts failed, couldn’t give up enough compensation to make another team budge."

    and from that sniveling turd Meyers:
    "The Jets were too far back. The Giants didn’t want to risk another team picking Apple between No. 11 and No. 19 and the Jets were not offering enough goodies for the Giants to consider drafting another player at No 20."
     
    MoWilkBeast likes this.
  18. Jedi mind tricks

    Jedi mind tricks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,059
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    I was the first to point out the hack over dak problem back when everyone here laughed at me for bringing it up. Fact is everyone passed on dak and Idk what'd he'd be if we drafted him anyway. Maybe my brain is in outer space but even I can see we just overhauled our front office, scouting dept, etc.. firing everyone and starting over is not the answer. That's how you end up with a team with no identity! You have players from multiple regimes, players drafted for completely different schemes, all thrown together.

    The future isn't bright but the franchises that we are constantly looking up at have one thing in common: STABILITY.

    Look at the Bengals a franchise with a similar history to ours. They've stuck with Lewis for 10+ years, even after some VERY tough years, giving them STABILITY and they were able to find a QB, have an identity as a team, and be in contention for the playoffs more than not. If they weren't always fighting the Steelers and Ravens they'd be even more successful. Now they haven't won anything but I'd trade places with them right now. That's what we need.

    Stop looking for the next coach, GM, exec to come in and save the day. Let's build this thing up and give the guys sometime to do it. I've done the coach to coach, Gm to Gm thing the last decade. I'm willing to give these guys a couple more years, if for no other reason other than IT'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT. We've tried it the other way let's actually change tactics and see what happens
     
  19. CBG

    CBG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Messages:
    7,120
    Likes Received:
    4,964
    Heres some concerns,,,,besides the drafts that have been ho hum at best , I think back to this QB debacle that began in the summer . We all wondered how it was going to play out when Fitz held out. Many of us said " there must be a Plan B " Mike Mac knows what he's doing right ? Now fast forward to this current train wreck of a team and organization ! They gave Fitz 12 million when he had no where else to go, so yes they overpaid for a guy that we all knew could not improve on last years numbers . I guess plan B was to actually start Geno if Fitz had signed elsewhere or not taken / stolen the offer ? Very scary organization from Woody,,,to Mac ,,,to Bowels to the team ! Sad Times my friends in Mac I will not trust unless he shows me something "BIGLY" with this years draft , FA and I would say coaching staff but as we have learned he has nothing to do with that its all on Bowels, god help us !
     
  20. JetUp325

    JetUp325 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    27
    I think we all need to take a step back and realize the absolute mess Mac took over when he got here, and where we are at now. Even if you don't agree with his draft picks, it's been two years. Give them time to pan out.

    Team when Mac took it over (2014 offseason)
    QB: Geno, Vick, Simms
    RB: Ivory, Chris Johnson, Bilal Powell
    FB: John Conner, Tommy Bo
    WR: Eric Decker, Percy Harvin, Kerley, TJ Graham, Owusu, Enunwa and some other duds
    TE: Jace Amaro, Jeff Cumberland, Chris Pantale, Sudfeld
    OT: D'Brick, Breno, Ijalana, Dozier
    OG: Colon, Aboushi, Johnson, Winters
    C: Mangold, Freeman

    DE: Wilkerson, Richardson, Douzable
    DT: Harrison, Ellis, Barnes
    OLB: Coples, Pace, IK, Reilly, Babin
    ILB: Harris, Davis, Bellore
    CB: Wilson, Williams, Adams, Walls, Milliner, Dex
    FS: Dawan Landry, Allen
    SS: Pryor, Miles, Jarrett

    Looking at that team, I italicized any player we wanted to keep as a starter going into 2015 (under the age of 30) and highlighted any young player that at the time we thought could have a future with the team (under age of 25). Looking at this team with the same parameters (starters under age of 30 or players with a plausible future under 25)

    QB: Hackenberg
    RB: Powell
    WR: Decker, Enunwa, Anderson, Peake, Jalin Marshall, Smith
    TE: ASJ
    OT: Shell
    OG: Carpenter & Winters
    C: Johnson

    DE: Wilkerson, Williams, Thomas
    DT: Simon
    OLB: Mauldin, Jenkins
    ILB: Lee
    CB: Burris & Roberts
    SS: Miles & Middleton

    You have to see that this is finally a team in transition. Are all these players going to turn out, hell no. I'm already worried about Devin Smith & Mauldin and very skeptical on ASJ, Darryl Roberts and Doug Middleton. But finally we are taking the steps to building a youthful core that we haven't had in some time. Do I think Bowles is the answer, no not at all. Do I think Mac is the answer, I think with some more time yes he could be.

    Also, my last point, for all the fire Macc people. GM's under Woody:

    Terry Bradway - 5 years (2001-2005)
    Mike Tannebaum - 7 years (2006-2012)
    John Idzik - 2 years (2013-2014)

    Odds are Mike's going to see a new coach in his tenure.
     
    ajax likes this.

Share This Page