Decision to Punt on 4th and 7

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by JethroTull, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. Rextasy

    Rextasy Well-Known Member

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    It's a strange feeling but I pretty much enjoyed watching game yesterday. I didn't actively root against the Jets but watched the game with zero expectation of anything positive happening and I chuckled some at Bowles incompetence.

    This is the best plan the Jets have had in some time, now whether or not they can execute it properly is another story in which I certainly have my doubts but the plan is excellent.
     
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  2. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I don't know. If they blew the whistle at 56 minutes with your team down, would you care?

    C'mon! When teams work for SECONDS on the clock, how can you dismiss 4-5 MINUTES?

    As to when to go for two, I agree that compared to the punt with 4 minutes left, it pales, but it's still evidence that Bowles doesn't have a handle on his team's ability or the dynamics of a game. As i posted above, by scoring when they did, the Jets finally had some momentum going, and MAYBE could have ridden that to another score, but when they failed on the conversion, POOF! went the momentum, and that was a virtual death sentence for this anemic offense. This is a great example of why numbers/statistics cant tell the whole story.
     
  3. sec314

    sec314 Well-Known Member

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    If you are down 7 and score a td and miss the extra point does that mean you were down 2 scores?. I was not being sarcastic. You logic is assinine and makes zero sense. Might the dumbest thing I have ever read on this site. ok
     
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  4. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Technically yes but the difference is you almost certainly make the extra point, so you can assume it's a 1 score game. OTOH if you're down 8, you'll probably miss the 2 pointer and then find out when it's too late "Damn we did need 2 scores but now we're out of time."
     
  5. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    While the Bills offense may not be considered "elite", against the Jets "D" they were. They racked up 408 yards of offense - 5.7 yards/play! Given the dynamics of this game, on this day, they were highly likely to move the ball and be able to run out the clock against a helpless Jets defense. That Bowles either didn't know this, or refused to accept it, is inexcusable.
     
  6. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Move the ball and run out the clock yes. Actually get into the end zone? Not necessarily. Think about what would have happened if their drive had ended in a field goal instead of a touchdown. An extra point would have been useless, but a successful two pointer would have made it a one field goal instead of one touchdown game.
     
  7. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Gotcha!;)
     
  8. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Let me ask you: Given how that game played out up until that point, were the odds greater that the Bills would be stopped and have to settle for a FG, or that they would score a TD? IMO, given that the Jets were unable to stop them, scoring a TD was much more probable than the FG. But in any case, going for two and missing it let's all the air out of the momentum balloon, and was a bad decision based on the dynamics of the game and how his players were playing. This is why I tear my hair out - what's left of it - whenever I hear a coach.manager excuse his decision by saying he "went by the book". It's why I can't stand Joe Girardi (but that's a rant for a different site and time). Yes, you have to consider "the book", but in the end you have to give more weight to the reality in front of you, and this is where Bowles fails.
     
  9. sec314

    sec314 Well-Known Member

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    Lots of almosts and If's in your posts. You make decisions based on being successful. I give up,you win.
     
  10. NYJFan10

    NYJFan10 Well-Known Member

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    That's the big irony...he punts down 8 with four minutes to go and three timeouts and it's accepted. But punting down TWO scores with four minutes left is unconscionable.
     
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  11. KurtTheJetsFan

    KurtTheJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    I'm finding all my Jets frustration fixating on his quote explaining this idiotic decision.."I thought we'd get good field position"..Absolutely idiotic..totally out of touch w his team,the high scoring climate of the league, or even basic situational football principles

    Hate to make or break a guy on one quote but can't get past it,,this guy needs to GO..the sooner the better..

    No wonder this team is so lifeless..I wouldn't wanna play for this coach either
     
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  12. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    It's insulting to the fans really. Does he honestly believe that we would accept that reasoning? If he does then he's even more clueless than I already think he is.
     
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  13. johnny

    johnny Well-Known Member

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    Who said 4-5 minutes were unimportant? The point wasn't dismissing 4-5 minutes. Of course 4-5 minutes are important. As an example, if the Jets had a 4th down and 25 (ie. very little chance of a first down) with 8:30 (instead of 4:30) then a punt in that situation is entirely feasible. The point was that at the end of the third quarter (rather than the first part of the 4th quarter) when you have a chance to tie the game it's a legitime decision to go for two. Especially with such an offensively challenged team.

    You speak of momentum. If that's the case, imagine the momentum is they had tied it up.
     
  14. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

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    ^ +1.

    Keeping within a '1 score' distance - why is this lost on some?
     
  15. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    I had more of a problem with the 2 point conversion than the decision to punt.

    Only because I don't believe there was a chance in hell that offense was going to pick up a 4th and 7 like that. You punt and who knows maybe buffalo muffs it or something.... but you go for it and its absolutely over because Mccown ain't picking that up
     
  16. Martin&theJETS

    Martin&theJETS Well-Known Member

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    With every passing game Toilet just keeps proving my contention that he is illiterate.
     
  17. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    You did, as I cut and pasted your own words.

    And using a "4the down and 25" is apples and oranges. It WASN'T "4th and 25 with 8 and half minutes to go", it was 4th and 9 with 4 minutes to go - completely different situations. I don't understand the point you're trying to make here.

    As for momentum, in that situation with that Jets team and their performance on this day, the odds were that they would not make it. So instead of taking the good feeling they had just gotten, they immediately wiped it out with failure. This is theory, it's fact. And Bowles should have taken this into consideration when he decided to take that risk. Maybe he did, I don't know, but it was a bad bet.
     
  18. johnny

    johnny Well-Known Member

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    I feel that we are going back and forth. Nevertheless, the point in my example was that I understand that 4-5 minutes in gametime can change an in-game decision. I just don't think that 4-5 minutes in the gametime clock (at the end of the third quarter) is a reason why a 2 point conversion in that situation would be totally uncalled for.

    If the odds were that they weren't going to make the 2 point conversion at the end of the third quarter, what makes them so much greater if the were down by eight later on in the game and happened to score a TD with 4-5 minutes left?

    Face it, if you are already down by eight and you plan to give up another TD you are probably going to have to have a successful 2 point conversion after either your first or second TD. I don't think that you are any more likely to score on a conversion on your second TD rather than your first. It looks like you disagree. I don't necessarily disagree with going for the standard XP, I just don't think that the 2 point conversion was totally uncalled for.

    If the defense is that fragile that they fold when the Jets are down by 2 rather than 1 then that doesn't say too much for them.
     
  19. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    On paper, nothing, but in actual game situations, when you factor in the increased desperation that might enable a blocker, or runner, receiver, QB to do just that much more making the difference in the play working. Because at that late point in the game there is no other choice, and that knowledge causes everyone to give their all.I'm not saying that guarantees that it works then, but the odds are higher.

    And again, I don't see this decision as being as bad as the punt later on, but it adds to the overall indictment of Bowles as clueless.
     
  20. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    It has nothing to do with "finding out too late."

    Coaches always talk about simply being in a position to win. A one score game is a completely different position to win than a two score game.

    If you miss the 2 pointer On the last play of the game to lose at least you had a chance to win. It takes a huge leap (or complete absence of) logic that it is the same thing as being down 9 at the end of the game and having no chance to win it simply because the end result is the same -- a loss.

    Just a stupid argument on your part. There is no more technical description of your argument that can apply beyond just being stupid.
     

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