Cimini: McCagnan doesnt view Mayfield as top 3 pick

Discussion in 'Draft' started by JethroTull, Mar 17, 2018.

  1. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    And some fans here are thinking Baker is best for Bowles and the defense because he hypes people enough? Thats not the reason you draft a QB.
     
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  2. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    but again based on what? in the NFL you can't even define a catch apparently, so how can they define an open window or accurate throw, the person watching the film to decide still has to give "his opinion" to build the stats. therefore by definition it's just an opinion.
     
  3. PennyandtheJets

    PennyandtheJets Well-Known Member

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    https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/4/9/17213706/baker-mayfield-scouting-report

    This seems like a pretty well thought out opinion.

    Fact of the matter is there aren't any in depth analytics out there like this in support of Allen because the analytics do not do him any favors. You can identify great throws by any QB or bad throws by any QB. Allen struggles consistently. That is what the data shows. Its also what his game tape shows.
     
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  4. LF911SC

    LF911SC Well-Known Member

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    Data shows nothing. Lowest drop rates, how is that a thing? His receivers aren't open anywhere near as often as Mayfields. Don't get the separation, don't catch balls without duress like Bakers. Let's not be crazy and try and say otherwise. Anyone who watched games knows this.
     
  5. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Going back to our previous discussion on everyone being a scout lol ... a lot of tapes out there show every drop-back from a QB.

    Josh Allen misses high, Lamar Jackson does too at times. Lamar its because he just has inconsistent footwork. Allen only throws really with 1 speed, needs to lay off the zip a little bit. Baker, and Rosen don't.
     
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  6. LF911SC

    LF911SC Well-Known Member

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    Mayfield threw to wide open receivers. What statistic is there for tight windows? That's a human determining what is or isn't a tight window, there no stat that says it is. That's just wrong. Just as is the idea that there is a stat for accuracy other than completion percentage. So yes, you're right, when someone says accuracy is more than completion percentages and the answer is there is a stat for tight windows and accuracy and you know, never provide it other than to say it exists, it's not me who keeps repeating things that don't exist. Logic tells us there isn't a accuracy stat.
     
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  7. BroadwaySam

    BroadwaySam Well-Known Member

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    The draft needs to happen already. This shit is getting old.
     
  8. PennyandtheJets

    PennyandtheJets Well-Known Member

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    The analytics show that Allen's WRs drop less passes and the analytics show that Baker is better at completing tight window throws. How is that crazy?
     
  9. LF911SC

    LF911SC Well-Known Member

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    There is no stat in the world that will tell anyone what Allens numbers would have been in Oklahoma and what Mayfields would have been if he played in Wyoming. Stop telling me I'm ignoring something when it doesn't exist. That's pure, utter guesswork. As usual the words get twisted. All I said is try and prove that they wouldn't be different and right away you feel the need to jump to Bakers defense and claim that statistics prove they would be the same. Right, think that one through.
     
  10. PennyandtheJets

    PennyandtheJets Well-Known Member

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    Undoubtedly correct.
     
  11. PennyandtheJets

    PennyandtheJets Well-Known Member

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    You are right. They wouldn't be the same. Allen still wouldn't complete as many passes with Oklahoma and Baker would complete more passes with Wyoming. Baker is more accurate whether it is a wide open throw or not.
     
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  12. LF911SC

    LF911SC Well-Known Member

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    You believe that, I get it. I'm not so sure. Could be but to say it with 100 % conviction is hard. I do know this, Mayfield hardly threw into tight windows, his WRs were open more often that other QBs. Not blaming him for this or knocking him for it. But not going to conclude that the tighter windows were Allens fault therefore he doesn't get credit for having to make tough passes to make completions.
     
  13. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    again it's 1 person opinion who starts out saying

    "Full disclosure: I am an Oklahoma Sooners fan on Saturdays when I’m not a Broncos fan, and, thus, love Baker Mayfield by default."

    on top of that all he does is quote stats, show a good few throws, and quote other people who share his same thoughts. using one's opinion to validate your own opinion, doesn't make it any less of an opinion. He also purposely disregards ro writes off his negatives. You can't take a fan sided opinion. what we have here is one person's opinion (who is a fan) collecting stats and quotes from other opinions to make his point, and you using it to make your point. In a court of law, that's called "heresay" and inadmissible as evidence.
     
  14. LF911SC

    LF911SC Well-Known Member

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    OK, guess you know better. No one did. Wouldn't want to put Sanchez and the Baker in a similar situation. Jeez
     
  15. PennyandtheJets

    PennyandtheJets Well-Known Member

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    I agree with his opinion lol. That's my point.
     
  16. LF911SC

    LF911SC Well-Known Member

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    Who decided what's a tight window? It's not a stat, it's what someone decides is a tight window. Open to wide interpretation, is this hard to understand?
     
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  17. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    The problem is again statistics prove you wrong. It is nice to make things up and post it on the internet with no data. It is easy and anyone can do it. But there is a statistic that I posted earlier that said Mayfield actually through into tight coverage (with defenders within 1 yard of the WR) 21 percent of the time. The 2nd highest among all eligible QBS. Higher than Rosen, Darnold or Allen. PFF also has a similar statistic about NFL type throws. I understand that its fun and easy to make up an opinion, attack other posters and demand everyone bow down to your opinion. But again without a source or any backup data your opinion is not credible and without merit.

    Edit: if you did analysis, film review or brought in some other evidence than simply your opinion along with everyone else is wrong because they disagree with you then i could respect your opinion. But, with all due respect your posts are lazy, lack substance and work. I am probably wrong on most things I post but I try to make a n argument. There are lots of great posters here who are not only much more knowledgeable than me but they often post the opposite of me but I respect the hell out of posts and opinions because of the work, logic and thought they put into their posts.
     
    #1377 Noam, Apr 16, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  18. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    which is nothing more then an opinion and heresay, hence not factual nor evidence. which is my main point. we are all just giving opinions, nothing more,
     
  19. SolidGoldBowles

    SolidGoldBowles Well-Known Member

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    except all that stat is, is based on someone's opinion with no way to back it up. in short "show your work" lets see every play they looked at, and how they marked it down. If they can't provide the back-up of their stat to be analyzed, then it's nothing more then opinion.
     
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  20. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    I will take the objectiveness and the professional analysis of PFF and another organization over a guy on the internet who just posts opinions with no substance or analysis. I am not talking about you btw as I respect the work you do even if I question your objectiveness or impartiality.
     

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