Can someone explain to me why Josh Rosen isn’t the lock #1 pick?

Discussion in 'Draft' started by JethroTull, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    The fact that he's gotten hit so hard and hurt and keeps playing tells me he's tough. And while you, like others question his commitment, if he wasn't committed he wouldn't still be playing. As for his "attitude" I think it's great - he believes he IS better than everyone else and is willing to back it up. And Namath was not more mobile than Rosen is. Rosen doesn't run a lot because he trusts his arm - rightfully so - but he can move if he needs to.

    I agree these are issues that cast doubt on him, and frankly I hope all the teams in front of the Jets believe them.
     
  2. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but I still disagree. He may have more mental toughness than I thought, but he isn't physically tough, or he wouldn't get hurt so easily/often.

    Why wouldn't he still be playing? If he quit now, he makes no money from playing the game. He can sign an NFL contract first, then if gets seriously injured, walk away and he has something. Lots of players with little or no love for the game quit once they get to the NFL. The lure of money and fame are powerful, but when they see how hard they have to work to rehab or to succeed, their motivation for money and fame aren't enough and they walk away.

    Namath was more mobile. Even after his first knee injury, he was still pretty fast and mobile. It was the repeated injuries that took their toll on Namath. Rosen isn't nearly as fast or mobile as Namath.
     
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  3. grkmanga31

    grkmanga31 Well-Known Member

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    I think there are a few factors why he may not be the #1 pick with some reasons being more meaningful than others.
    1) Rosen pretty much said that he rather go to the right team/fit as opposed to going number 1 overall. Essentially, Rosen is saying I don't want to go to the Browns but I'll go to the Giants at 2 because the Browns are a joke
    2) Rosen has a mouth on him and is incredibly outspoken. Rosen comes from a very wealthy background and has been very opinionated about the NCAA, Trump, etc. In big markets, this may be problematic.
    3) He threw a bunch of INT's this past season and some teams may interpret that as him not being able to understand that he cannot force throws, even if your losing.
    4) He has some injury concerns

    The last 2, I think are less impactful.

    On the contrary, I think his outspokenness may cause some concern for certain GM's and i think the fact that he pretty much stated he rather be selected by another team other than the Browns may have the Browns actually go for someone like Darnold, who by all indications, seems a lot less outspoken and has said he will play for any team.
     
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  4. EnunwaFan

    EnunwaFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    This is why I'd be willing to see what it takes to move up to 1 to take Darnold. Or 3 to take Mayfield. Rosen might be the best passer in this year's class, but his concussions and outspokenness worry me. Obviously, if we sign Cousins, all of this is moot.
     
  5. grkmanga31

    grkmanga31 Well-Known Member

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    It'll cost us at least 2 first round picks, and a slew of 2nd/3rd rounders to move up to 3 let alone going up to #1.

    I think at best trading up to 3 would be most realistic, but 1 seems impossible without selling off a ton of future assets. I don't know if any of the QB's in this draft are worth selling the farm for.

    I would much prefer stay at 6 but totally get the situation where we may need to trade up to 3 to pick QB.

    If we strike out on Cousins, I think Jets may go Mayfield
     
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  6. wampa

    wampa Active Member

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    As many others have stated.

    1. Attitude 'concerns'. I think this isn't some of the things most of us are thinking of - F-trump, hot tub, etc. It's not his outspokenness on political issues either, or the fact he's got some cockiness to him. There are plenty of outspoken and cocky players in the NFL.

    The 'concern' is that they don't think Rosen's life's ambition is to be an NFL QB and nothing else. They're fine with getting a post-playing career in sports broadcasting or coaching or something, but they don't want his position 'as QB' to be a stepping stone to something else he feels is more important. Matt Miller noted that there's a team that devalued Derek Carr on its draft board because he was married and they thought that'd be a distraction from the job. While that was a dumb decision on their part, I think that speaks a little to the mindset of the NFL. If there are two guys who they feel are close in talent level, the NFL is going to pick the guy whose life is football, who has no life outside of football, etc. They don't want players distracted.

    2. Injury concerns. This is true for any NFL prospect, and Rosen, talent or not, does not get an exception here. He's got concussion history and shoulder injury history. Physicals will take this into account, and I don't think it'll significantly impact his stock, but if you're a team with tie grades on two prospects and one guy has several concussions and injuries and the other doesn't, you're usually going to go with the more durable prospect.

    3. It's not that important for QBs compared to other position, but he's just not as athletic or escapable as any of the other top-5 QBs. The NFL isn't going to penalize him for standing in the pocket and throwing, but the more 'fixable' they view the other prospects mechanically/accuracy wise, the less of an advantage his best tool - his mechanics - gives him in that respect.

    I'm almost sure he'll be the top QB on the board for some teams going into the draft, and it's really unlikely he makes it out of the top 5. But that's why he's not a #1 overall lock.
     
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  7. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    The shoulder injury in 2016 doesn't concern me at this point. It was widely reported as a soft tissue injury, likely a nerve being pressed on where it shouldn't have been, and he looked just fine throwing the ball this season. No weakness in the arm at all and no hesitation about making the long throws.

    The concussions are more worrisome and that's where I'd be doing some major evaluation pre-draft.

    If he gets concussed early in his NFL career is he going to face pressure from family and friends to give up pro football?

    He wants to be an entrepreneur, somewhere on the spectrum between an investment banker and a hedge fund runner. If he suffers early reverses, including physical ones like concussions, is he going to be looking at the off-ramp early into his next career?

    Thirdly, is he concussion-prone at this point?

    I'd want to know the best possible answers to all 3 questions by draft day.

    From a pro-ready perspective he's a 10 in this group and nobody else is more than a 5 or 6.
     
  8. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Regarding how "mobile" Namath was coming out of Alabama:

    http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2016/10/alcom_vintage_looking_back_at_2.html

    Also in that same story is a reference to him being suspended in his junior year for the Sugar Bowl for an alcohol-related offense. Back then alcohol wasn't seen as the threat it is today so maybe it didn't cause any teams to think twice about his behavior, but if that was attached to a player today it would be a HUGE red flag. Compared to this, the "indictment" of Rosen's attitude pales.

    And he got hurt so "easily and often" because his line sucked. Yes, the Jets line currently sucks, but it's almost a given that it will be substantially upgraded so that concern is less.

    I understand you want Mayfield, but Rosen is a much more polished, pro-ready QB. I acknowledge the concerns about him, but still think he's worth it.
     
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  9. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I agree that Rosen is more polished and pro ready, but that's not the most important thing to me. It doesn't matter to me if the Jets draft a QB if he can start immediately or even his rookie season. What's important to me is that once he hits the field, he will lead the offense to play to their highest potential, if he will be able to play week in and week out and stay healthy.
     
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  10. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

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    So, Rosen's a 10 and in effect "double" Darnold? . : )

    Not in today's NFL.

    Or, why is Darnold (in spite of the TGG fall-of-2017 "oh my gosh, Josh!" group think) still the overwhelming choice to go #1?

    Me thinks it's because he's the most complete package of the lot (meaning attributes that extend beyond the "pretty arm").


    NCJetsfan, you're on the right path. . A healthy, pre-knee injury Namath was in a different league than Josh Rosen. . While Josh Rosen's also a fine tennis player with 'skills' in his own right, Namath was all-state in basketball in ('PA' meaning Philly, etc) and also had a healthy bonus offer from the Chicago Cubs staring him in the face. . Curiously, Rosen's self-described "dream school" (Stanford) passed on Josh even though he was listed as the top scholastic prospect in his home state of California. . Namath on the other hand was a damned Yankee from western Pennsylvania who was recruited by no less a coaching icon than Bear Bryant at no less a "south of the Mason-Dixon line" powerhouse than Alabama (with their:eek: "Heart of Dixie" license plates).
     
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  11. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Darnold is not the overwhelming choice to go #1.

    He gets mocked to the Browns a lot on the #1 pick because Rosen has said that he's more interested in the fit than the pick# he goes on. Darnold says whoever drafts him will be fine.
     
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  12. ChOsenTEES

    ChOsenTEES Member

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    Rosen is an elitist private school bred jerk. I cannot stand people like him, since I had the unfortunate experience of going to high school with many of those types for three years.
     
  13. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Rosen's high school was a Catholic all boys school. Not sure that quite qualifies as an elitist private school in the nomenclature of the day.

    The one thing St. John Bosco HS does do is to get its graduates into college (97% admission rate to 4 year colleges) and keep them there (93% sophomore return rate as opposed to 64% nationally.)

    The other interesting thing is that a fair number of pro athletes have come out of St John Bosco over the years including Nomar Garciaparra, Evan Longoria, Dennis Lamp, Leon McFadden, Todd Husak, Tyler Dorsey, James Cotton and Bud Smith.
     
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  14. EnunwaFan

    EnunwaFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    I'm more worried about Rosen's concussion history than where he went to high school. I have no doubt he is a day 1 starter for whichever team selects him.
     
  15. King Koopa

    King Koopa Well-Known Member

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    He might very well be a great player one day but I'm not investing in him and either is Woody Johnson

    You think Woody is making a "Fuck Trump" kid from Cali his franchise QB? There's just no way IMO....

    I'm not taking a rich kid with concussion issues....even money he quits football early
     
  16. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    You think the Jets are going to invest in a kid with drug rumors all around him who is seen as haughty and aloof by his teammates?

    No way we take Dan Marino with those questions hanging over him.
     
  17. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Assuming the Jets stick with the WCO, Rosen would be ideal. And while his reputation for questioning his coaches might well turn off Bowles, that's exactly the kind of QB the Jets need.
     
  18. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    You guys are forgetting that Joe Namath was entirely outspoken..like Rosen..about the Vietnam War, Draft, wearing a fur coat, predicting a Jet victory..also showed early signs of alcoholism that eventually embarrassed him on Nat TV..

    The fact that Rosen opened his mouth against the Browns is fine by me since they will pass on him and prob take Darnold ...all the more reason for the Jets to either grab the number one or three spot if possible.

    I like Rosen or Mayfield for the Jets ..both good fits.

    Get Rosen a special helmet or something ..stop worrying about his head..other teams won't

    Let him get us a SB win between Neurologist visits ..who cares. This kid is NFL ready ...I want another SB in this lifetime ...you can't have QB Perfection!!!
     
    #58 NYJetsO12, Feb 13, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  19. King Koopa

    King Koopa Well-Known Member

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    OK so if Rosen turns out to be Dan Marino you win

    You think an ambassador appointed by Trump is taking Josh Rosen for a team he owns? He's literally the last QB we draft for that reason alone

    Concussion issues are actually real though in today's NFL, and especially worrisome when it's someone who can fall back on money and/or other interests. Other players have been quitting football early

    Some possible drug rumors for a college kid I don't really give a shit about, so it's not the same at all

    He's a very good player but I like the other QBs more when you consider all angles
     
  20. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    For me, the ONLY concern is the concussion issue. That's the only thing that could shorten his career and/or keep him out of games, thus negating whatever talent he has.

    And if Woody/Chris made it known they passed on Rosen because of his political views, I would be done with this team once and for all, at least until new owners took over.
     

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