If I'm not mistaken, I suggested that Mangold would be on the roster in my post. Wesley Johnson would be on the roster as well per the same post. In fact what I said was "I agree that winning starts in the trenches and we have to find a LT at all costs , preferably a FA. Center can be had late in the draft, round 5 or 6. Mangold will hopefully be back next season and Johnson and Quayle can play back up roles" That being said a serviceable to very good center can be found round 5 or later , especially considering that you have a pro bowl center on the roster and his possible successor in Johnson on the roster. I never said finding starting caliber centers in the 5 the round was was, but possible. Don't change my words, or take half a sentence out of context to suit you position.
How about you guys who think we can get a decent center later in the draft name some names. Please name the prospects in this draft that will be good enough start for us at center but will somehow still be there in round five. The only guy I like for center in this draft so far is Forrest Lamp. Depending on which mock you look at he is projected as a late first rounder (about where Mangold was taken). If we are jackpot lucky he will be there when we pick in round two. If Lamp is there when we pick which of you geniuses wouls be willing to pass on him?
I like Lamp a lot, very versatile ,can play multiple positions. Was a LT, but projects as a guard in the NFL. Would be a project at center. Tyler Orlosky is one who comes to mind, projected round 4-5. With Mangold likely on the roster and Johnson his possible successor , center is not the pressing need that other positions are. Just curious,who was your first round selection?
Short answer is yes. Long response is... first lets evaluate the OL. The interior is solid (assuming Mangold is back) with Carpenter, Mangold, and Winters. Leaving LT and RT in question. There are many scenarios to how this could be addressed but lets stick with the most likely. Which I assume will be acquiring a LT via FA, Riley Reiff seems to be the most likely choice. For RT I would assume Mac wants to draft a T in the 2nd or 3rd and go with the best option between the newly acquired rookie and Shell at RT, or do the RT carousel similar to last year. The major issue is that even if talent is upgraded at these key positions the greatest asset of any good OL is familiarity and continuity. Which only the interior guys will have.
No I will not assume Mangold is back or that he will even be healthy enough to play all that well. Mangold is due to make nine million dollars. If we get Lamp at the bottom of round one or the top of round two we can spend that nine million on a CB, a pass rusher, or whatever other position you wanted to blow our draft pick to fill. Wesley Johnson is a free agent. I think we bring him back but why do so if we are keeping Mangold? Pretty easy to win an arguement when you hold the other side to unreasonable assumptions needed to support your position.
Johnson comes back for depth, he can play multiple positions. If Mangold is cut, as your assuming, Johnson may very well be our center next year. The most likely scenario is that the Jets approach Mangold with a reduced contract. He could accept it, he could retire like Brick did in the same scenario last year , or he could refuse and try his luck on the open market. There's no way to know what the FO is planning. Lamp is projected to play guard in the NFL. Carpenter and Winters fill the guard positions so taking a skill position or player who fills an immediate need and will be a day 1 starter, is a wasted pick compared to taking Lamp who would be third or fourth option at his position... Congratulations, you win the argument.
What I think is being forgotten here is the difference between "overhauled" and "finished". Many are criticizing what being posted in here as though it cannot possibly happen. Well, if your idea of overhauled is the same as finished, then there's a good possibility you could be right? But I tend to believe that's an impossible task to get done in one offseason. Overhauling to me means changing the starters. What happens in 2017 is up to coaching and how the new additions gel with the veterans. How soon they create chemistry and learn their jobs and their teammates tendencies. The only thing I am hoping for is an overhauled OL. We KNOW the starters in 2016 did not work. Therefore, we must sooner rather than later address the OL. But if we go forward wanting to overhaul the OL? I think we'll find that maybe in 2017 there are certain new additions that my be better suited to be depth? In any event it's all good because the Jets lack starters along the OL AND they lack depth as well....
I think you are correct, but some are insisting that we must somehow draft a pro bowl left tackle, pro bowl center and pro bowl right tackle in the first two rounds. Obviously we don't have the picks to do so , and there may not be that talent available even if we had those picks. The entire roster needs to be overhauled so it's not realistic to expect the O line to be finished this off season. As nice as it would be if it were. Carpenter and Winters are back, hopefully Mangold will be willing to restructure and Johnson resigns. Shell showed promise in his limited time and could be our RT going forward but is unproven. We have to sign a LT. Ijalana is a FA and isn't the answer at LT. The line must be improved, but as you said. It's not likely to be finished in one off season.
Interior OL is given: LG Carpenter, C Mangold (paycut a must/Wes Johnson C / Winters RG OT is a little stronger now that Denver not picking up Okung's option. I think we need get one LT from FA with a 1+1 contract as I don't trust in draft prospects. In RT, let's sign a vet RT to compete with Shell (but we were in a race to sign Osemele last year, so I can imagine that Macc will try to sign Ricky Wagner).
Why does everyone think Mangold will take a pay cut to stay with our crappy team? Damian Woody and Brick retired when we tried to force a pay cut. If Mangold calls ouf bluff and we cut him he is free to go to New England, Oakland, Denver, etc. where he has a shot at a ring.
Mangold is due too much money in 2017 under his current contract, you agree with this. You even stated you refuse to assume he will be back or even able to healthy enough to play all that well. I agree, as do many, he could very well retire if asked to take a paycut. That has been posted repeatedly. Offering him a reduced contract is the fiscally responsible move. He has spent his career on this"crappy" team and has stated he wants to return. If he chooses to leave , so be it. He isn't going to be here forever. Just because he leaves doesn't mean that he has the choice of going to any team he chooses. NE wouldn't likely consider him, they have an excellent center and backup who was a key to their last supper bowl win prior to this year's win. Why pay a big contract to an old vet, who may not be healthy, when you have 2 better options under contract for a fraction of his salary. The Raiders have Hudson and a young backup so they won't have interest. Denver hasa young center, Matt Paradis who was an alternate pro bowl center and should have been selected as a starter. He was ranked as the #3 center in the NFL last season.( He was drafted in the 6 the round) This is all hypothetical, we really have no insight to what the FO is planning. What Mangold is all ready planning. Who may come available in Free Agency. Now and after the draft. Who's stock will rise at the combine, who will fall, get arrested, Pop a piss test. Who will be the steal of the draft , the biggest bust? The only thing that we should all really agree on is that the 12 wasted picks in 14 have left us with no real Depth and a lack of quality starters throughout the roster.
Personally I don't see alot of value in the Center position nowadays beyond making the proper audibles pre snap for the entire OL unit & those rare 3-4 match-ups against dominant nose tackles. Otherwise these guys are primarily the "extra blockers" in pass pro & not much else. We don't see alot of dominant play from that position any longer..the athletes on the OL are being used at other positions that leave them head up on linemen. Gone are the days of Kevin Mawae & Dermotti Dawson pulling to the boundary on sweeps...those type of running plays aren't quite as frequent. Mangold was a very good 2 way center...maybe not the athletic mobile freak Mawae was..but he was extremely solid in all facets. His impact has deteriorated w. age as well as the dwindled running attack throughout the NFL. When you consider that the Jets switched to a zone blocking scheme last year...that pretty much seals the type of priorirty this position should truly receive. I wouldnt be able to name a Center who could start in round 5....but I certainly don't see a guy or name in round 1 or 2 that entices me in the least. Wesley Johnson will work just fine, thank you.
