Brady vs. Belichick vs. Kraft......tick tick tick tick.....BO

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by JetsKickAss, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. zace

    zace Well-Known Member

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    How does he do less? Please do elaborate.

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  2. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 Well-Known Member

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    Malik Jackson and Calais Campbell have been there before that's the thing, they are on the backend, but that front 7 is deadly. I hope we see them get there tho
     
  3. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    Without Belichick adjusting the defense, which played perfectly second half, there is no ring.
    shit Atlanta was in FG range to win it and got pushed out.

    Belichick adjusts during the game like no coach I've ever seen.
    Most innovative since Paul Brown, and probably the best ever. that has always been the key in NE.
    getting back to the point of the article, he'd continue to succeed with Jimmy G long term.
     
  4. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    He has had a huge advantage compared to those other QB's. If you can't see that, I can't help you understand. It is simple to see.
     
  5. zace

    zace Well-Known Member

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    But who scored those points to lead the comeback? Btw that was a falcon choke not a beli adjustment. The falcons did not play the same way the did prior to the half. They got lazy.

    You are correct tho Beli is a great coach, but that doesn't diminish the accomplishments of his QB. Can we at least agree on that last statement? Youre entitled to your feelings, i just strongly disagree.

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  6. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    Having also watched the entirety of both careers, I can say with confidence Marino was better........and I despised Marino.

    Shula was a crafty coach, but if they got a running game or better defense, they'd have rings also.
    Always amazed me they didn't improve those areas of the team.
    I'm glad he didn't ;)
     
  7. zace

    zace Well-Known Member

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    So wait, Sean Peyton isnt an advantage? Having Harrison and Wayne isn't either? Or Thomas and sanders? Thomas single handedly won Tebow a playoff game. You think Marino was on bad teams his whole career? Look at the coaches Montana had in SF. Somehow beat us diminished because his franchise is stable? Did you not read the article about the tension in the house that Tom built? He got his back up traded because he's so damn good.

    Cmon man don't try and pul the you don't understand and can't see one just so you don't have to provide evidence. Show me proof of his advantage or stop using it.

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  8. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    I have. My point is you don't get it, so time for me to move on. Like I said, people have different views or criteria on what makes QB's great or what makes one better than another. I think you believe Brady carried the Patriots since 2001 or at least is the main reason they win. If he did, I would think he is the best too. I just don't find that to be the case. I think Belichick has helped him out greatly. The Patriots defense won them their first 3 Super Bowls. Malcom Butler won the 4th one (or terrible Seahawks playcalling). Falcons collapse won the 5th. He has played his part though in their winning, and is a top QB. Just not the best to me.
     
  9. zace

    zace Well-Known Member

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    Im pretty sure i understand the game of football better than you ever will. He did carry that team. They absolutely do not win 5 bowls without Brady.

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  10. slimjasi

    slimjasi Well-Known Member

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    It's not just about the Superbowl Championships, though. There seems to be this misconception among people who bash Brady that his candidacy is mostly based on Superbowl Championships and playoff wins. While his team's playoff success has certainly been unreal during his career, that isn't close to being the whole story. His individual statistics and accomplishments are equally absurd, and in point of fact, historically dominant.

    Brady is the rare guy who has both the individual statistical prowess and the Superbowl rings.

    Marino was a great, great quarterback (in my top 5 all-time), but I would say the biggest thing that puts Brady safely ahead of him in my book is Brady's big game performances. Marino had a lot of bad road playoff games in which he didn't play very well.
     
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  11. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    serious question, how old were you in 2000-2004?
    they won 3 Super Bowls before i believe Br*dy even appeared in a Pro Bowl game.

    Defense and Special teams were outstanding back then, along with the coaching.
    No one was crediting Br*dy as the driving force behind those Super Bowls back then. He's improved tremendously as a player from those days, and somehow he has retroactively gained credit for those seasons.
     
  12. zace

    zace Well-Known Member

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    I was over the age of 20. They absolutely did credit him, that created the legend of brady. No one is denying they had a defense that could help then. Who drove them to the game winning field goals they kicked? I hardly judge pro bowls appears as a measure of success.

    I dont know why youre fighting it so hard, its clear you have personal feelings towards him as a fan that are driving this argument.

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  13. zace

    zace Well-Known Member

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    Brady plays in the northeast on top of that. Weather conditions that Marino struggled in at times.

    Its the way brady plays the game. I argue that his stats could be better if he was more of a selfish guy, but he wasnt. Hed hand it off 30 time if it got him a game closer to the super bowl, but he could surely drop 300 yrds and 3 tds on anyone at the drop of a dime even before the pass happy nfl became what it has.

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  14. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    No they were not crediting him, c'mon.
    It wasn't until after the 3rd Super Bowl until talking heads starting saying maybe we should be giving Br*dy more credit, and that is when the whole Br*dy Wins narrative began.

    I'd say it was around 2006 that individually he really came into his own.
    On a different team, I don't think he'd ever have made it, certainly not to this level. He had every advantage possible to start.....a great team, great coach, cheating...he didn't have a whole lot put on his shoulders back then.

    I'd like to see him prove it without Belichick, and without cheating.
    I hope that is next year...

    Why are you fighting so hard for Br*dy?
    It's like I'm talking to Junc again, do you love Sanchez too?
     
  15. Walt White

    Walt White Well-Known Member

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    Genobot :D
     
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  16. zace

    zace Well-Known Member

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    https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/...-super-bowl/7mbT3QFE048ZtrA5s2XP1H/story.html

    From 2002

    https://www.si.com/vault/2002/02/11...patriots-stunned-the-rams-in-super-bowl-xxxvi

    Same year

    He most definitely given his credit. He had the final drive of the game getting them into field goal range, when. He was expected to olay for OT. Thats how the legend of tom brady was born. Second season, 1st superbowl. What he did that season was unheard of. 2nd yr qbs didnt take teams to super bowls... They still dont.

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  17. slimjasi

    slimjasi Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I'm going to have to call bullshit on this. I'll give you the 2001 Championship. That team shouldn't have even been in the Superbowl to begin with (i.e. The tuck rule) and their defense was definitely the decisive factor in their huge upset over the Rams. But, let's talk about the second two (back to back in 2003 and 2004, respectively).

    The Superbowl win over the Panthers (2003):

    The Patriots defense totally shit the bed, giving up 19 points in the 4th quarter!

    Tom Brady in that Superbowl: 32-48, 354 passing yds, 3TDs, 1 INT, 100.5 QBR, Superbowl MVP

    Tom Brady in the playoffs that year: 59.5% completion percentage, 264 yds/game, 5 TDs, 2 INTs, 84.5 QBR
    (This stretch included a divisional round win over the Titans in freezing cold weather and an AFC Championship game win over the Colts in a snowstorm)


    The Superbowl win over the Eagles (2004):

    Tom Brady in that Superbowl: 23-33, 236 yds, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 110.2 QBR, Superbowl MVP

    Tom Brady in the playoffs that year: 67.9 completion percentage, 195.7 yds/game, 5 TDs, 0 INTs, 109.4 QBR


    Yes, the 2003 and 2004 teams had the best defense in the league in both years and defense was easily the single biggest strength of the 2003 team (the 2004 team is more debatable), but Brady was an integral part of both playoff runs, highlighted by game-winning drives and clutchness out the ass.

    Absolutely, but to be fair:

    Brady in that game: 37-50, 328 yds, 4 TDs, 2 INTS, 101.1 QBR

    Brady in the 4th quarter of that game: 14-16, 130 yds, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 140.1 QBR

    Absolutely, but to be fair:

    Brady in that game: 43-62, 466 yds, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 95.2 QBR

    Brady in the 4th quarter and OT of that game: 22-28, 246 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT, 115.2 QBR


    Again, Brady was simply magnificent in some of these big games.
     
    #137 slimjasi, Jan 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  18. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    There you go then! Don't waste your time debating with someone who doesn't understand football as well as you and never will!
    Yep. I never said otherwise. I meant they were a defense-first team his first 3 Super Bowl runs. It's true. Then it kinda shifted when Randy Moss showed up and Brady began leading the team in an offense-first way.
     
  19. slimjasi

    slimjasi Well-Known Member

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    Haha, ok but "The Patriots defense won them their first 3 Super Bowls" (the entire reason for my response) is considerably different from "they were a defense-first team his first 3 Super Bowl runs."

     
  20. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 Well-Known Member

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    Gotta admit though, James White the RB for the Pats was killin it making Brady look good. Patriots-Falcons.

    Superbowl against the Seahawks, I give Brady a whole lot of credit for that one.
     

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