Bowles certainly gone after the season - La Canfora

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Beki, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. WarriorRB28

    WarriorRB28 Well-Known Member

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    Relax.

    IF it happens. Still a long way to go.

    IF it does happen there are some key differences between what happened with Rex and Bowles situation. I won't get into it now because right now it seems too far fetched to be a possibility.
     
  2. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    Sorry. Not in my view. He might be part of the problem, but TB has been, is and will be the REAL problem as long as he is a Jet.
    Any other decent coach and we win 4 more games this year, easy. Cumulative lack of discipline and game calling on the field is not talent, is coaching
     
  3. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    If that is the case, the two morons will loose some of this fan base. That would be beyond idiotic.
     
  4. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    Would lose some of the fan base??

    TBH I think that has already happened

    Glad to see more people are coming out of the closet...praying for 3 more losses!!!!!!! Can't risk a nuance of a chance for this lunacy to continue...sigh

    The breakdown:

    Beating a red hot hot Houston team.?..really not a snowballs chance in hell...the NJ cold won't bother these Texans...scary thought>>>JJ Watt and Texans D have put 2 QBs out of commission

    Beating Aaron Rogers? ...even at MetLife still a tall order

    Beating NE at Foxboro in December?...the Dead could be Walking before that happens

    Call me what you will BUT>>>>Oh Football Gods..please... no Seasonal garbage time wins for us
     
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  5. JetsNation06

    JetsNation06 Well-Known Member

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    Mac might be part of the problem? Have you looked at the roster lately? Talent-less. His draft picks? Many of which aren't even on an NFL roster. That's not a coaching problem. That's a talent evaluation problem. So Mac is a huge part of the problem.

    Listen I never said Bowles wasn't the problem. I was just merely making the point that the pressure needs to be just as equally on Mac as it is on Bowles. Mac's got the keys to the car here and he can easily drive it right off the cliff if someone else doesn't step in and stop him from doing that.

    I'm completely with you on Bowles and Bates who should've been fired before DeFilippo was. But Mac also needs to go. If he stays there's going to be more of the same bs with horrible draft picks that has people wondering wtf he was thinking.
     
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  6. dawinner127

    dawinner127 Well-Known Member

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    Except we aren't playing for anything whatsoever. The season is over. I rather my 21 year old QB win the game for us. Also if IIRC it was 4th and goal, not 1st & goal.
     
  7. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    Don't disagree . I went on record repeatedly that ideally both should go. I simply think that TB was far and away the biggest problem both as a coach and totally opposed views on how to build a team. i hope we replace both, but if the numb nut owners replace just one it better be TB
     
  8. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Actually there's an excellent post in another thread that quantifies what MacCagnan has done - take a look:

    http://forums.theganggreen.com/thre...ke-maccagnan-thread.91602/page-3#post-3768094
     
    #188 Ralebird, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
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  9. JetsNation06

    JetsNation06 Well-Known Member

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    I've seen that and it only further reinforces why he should be gone with no questions asked. That's a crap draft history, way below average.

    You have one guy from 2015 left on the roster. Only one? And even his first round pick that year Williams has only turned into a slightly above average player. For a premium pick at the #6 spot that would be deemed under performing. That 2015 draft is Idzik level bad.

    2016 draft is well below average. Darron Lee is average. Jordan Jenkins is slightly below average. Way too slow to be an OLB in today's game. The rest of the picks from that draft are backup type players.

    2017 looks like his best draft and that would be considered average league wide. I think I'm being kind when I say that too. Adams is pretty good. The verdict is still out on Maye. He's been up and down. McGuire shows some flashes but need to see him do it more consistently.

    2018 - Darnold looks pretty solid but needs a bigger sample size. Herndon pretty solid. Cannon average so far. That's it from this class that are even making any kind of dent on the field.

    The problem is so many Jets fans have been conditioned to shitty drafts for so long that any glimpse of decent play and many completely overrate the guys on the field.

    Way too many misses on impact players that have become plus level players league-wide in the early and mid rounds by Mac. He's holding this franchise back big-time and needs to go or else it will be more of the same mediocre overall talent level.
     
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  10. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    I’m shocked our fan base is applauding what Mac has put together.

    Let’s look at it from another perspective, if a Bills fan came on this board and touted his GM as a good GM despite fielding a team with lack of talent and depth, no offense, 3 consecutive 4-5 win seasons, and a draft class that was completely out of football how would this fan base react to that Bills fan?

    He would be blasted and beaten down for being a delusional fan.

    Both guys share blame for the current state of this team.
     
  11. Jets81

    Jets81 Well-Known Member

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    Macs only defense is that the coach failed the drafted players, but, as has been pointed out already, many are no longer on any NFL roster.

    The question should be: what has Mac done to deserve to keep his job?

    My answer: not much.

    Generally, you take out all the trash on pickup day.
     
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  12. Rollo Tomassi

    Rollo Tomassi Well-Known Member

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    Never understood why they haven't moved him inside. He's big enough, he's tough enough, he's strong enough, he's a sure tackler and his lack of speed isn't as big of an issue as a 3-4 ILB.
     
  13. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    You know that I totally want Mac gone, so don't think I'm trying to defend him. Also, my post isn't meant to be critical of you or your post, but I want to try to make a general point regarding evaluating GMs, and am curious about the 2015 draft.

    IMO when using the draft to evaluate a GM, one has to consider the quality and depth of each draft. I may be mistaken, but imo the 2015 was pretty awful. Where are the studs/stars in the 2105 draft? Is there even one potential HOFer? The top two picks in the 2015 (Winston and Mariota) draft have just been meh. The only 3 players out of the top 20 in that draft that I'd consider topflight players are Todd Gurley, DeVante Parker and Marcus Peters. My guess is that a couple of the top 20 picks are busts, and the others are just average NFLers, but I could be mistaken. Doing a quick scan down through the 3rd round of the 2015 draft, the only two players who immediately jump out at me are Ronald Darby and Tyler Lockett. Could Mac have done better in that draft? Certainly, but I think it's overkill to try to pan Mac for taking Williams. If I'm wrong about the rest of that draft, then perhaps Mac can be severely criticized for the rest of his picks in that draft, but one also has to remember that he was using Tanny's Scouting Dept. for that draft and had only been on the job for 3 months or so.

    I'm curious, whom would you have had Mac draft that would have made the draft significantly better? I'm sure that there must be some other good players from that draft, but since I don't follow other teams, I don't know who they might be.

    In evaluating Williams or any drafted player, one also has to consider the scheme he has been playing in, how he has been utilized, and the players around him. His rookie season, Williams looked very good when he had some talented players on the DL with him in Mo and Richardson. Since then, there have been no other very good players on the DL, he faced constant double teams. Playing him at NT is a waste of his talents, and Bowles has played him at NT some of the time. Constantly facing double teams and playing out of position is gonna limit anyone's effectiveness and stats.
     
  14. Sandman

    Sandman Well-Known Member

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    As our GM I feel that Mac is on a slight upward curve. I just cannot imagine we will fire both and start all over yet again. I just dont get that at all. Sure it can happen and I would not be upset. But my inner feeling is give mac one more a bit more time. Im sick of all this constant turnover, rebuilding etc. Its pretty obvious what are issues are going into next season. I hope with the amount of Cap room he has created he will get the chance with that and the draft to prove if he is good enough or not.

    But Bowles I am totally done with. His lack of passion. he same same responses in every interview. His lack of passion and safety first play calling. It all seeps down onto the other coaches and the players. He may wll be a players coach, but rarely does that lead to any kind of consistent winning team. I will be extremely upset if he is still coach next season.
     
  15. Jets_Grinch

    Jets_Grinch Well-Known Member

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    My one exception to 100% agreeing with you is if we somehow can keep the Pats from getting the bye week. I would accept one more win if it means screwing up their playoff run.
     
  16. JetsNation06

    JetsNation06 Well-Known Member

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    It's all good man. I think debate is healthy and no offense taken in any way, shape or form. It's nothing personal, it's just how we all view these topics in a unique, different light.

    That said, WTF are you talking about?!?!? Just f*cking with ya. :)

    Ok so a few things about the 2015 draft to answer your questions and don't take these personally:

    Todd Gurley is definitely on track to be a HOF'er if he keeps producing at this All Pro caliber level every year. Pretty surefire HOF'er so yes, there's one for you.

    DeVante Parker??? Dude no offense, but you clearly need to watch more games of other teams. Devante Parker is barely considered an average WR and that's why the Dolphins were seriously considering trading him for even a late round pick as recently as 2 months ago.

    You forgot about Amari Cooper. 2 time Pro Bowler already and now he's lighting the league up again since his trade to Dallas. He's a legit star.

    Vic Beasley, another guy who can be considered a stud. Already a pro bowler, all pro and lead the league in sacks in his short 4 year career.

    Melvin Gordon, stud. Having an Pro Bowl and potential All pro year until his recent MCL injury. He's another star.

    So I would say there are 5 out of the top 20 that are top flight from 2015 in Gurley, Cooper, Beasley, Gordon and Peters. So that's a 25% return of studs in the top 20 picks.

    Moving onto the 2nd round, Landon Collins, Stud. Already an All pro and Pro Bowler.

    Eddie Goldman, Bears. Not a stud but a solid player. Almost as good as Leonard Williams stat wise and coulda been had in the 2nd round.

    Eric Kendricks - Vikings - Solid player

    Denzel Perryman - Solid player although can't seem to make it through a full season.

    So I'm not going to keep going through the list but this is ONLY the first 2 rounds of the draft that I listed. Surely there are going to be more keepers and some late round studs found even in a weaker draft like 2015. So that's just some of the names that Mac completely whiffed on in a weak draft that could have significantly upgraded the talent on this roster.

    And please don't use the Tanny scouting dept bs. Every new GM knows what they're getting into when they take over a team in the winter following a bad season. It's their job to determine who the best guys are and make the call regardless of if it's their scouting dept or the previous regimes. I can't listen to anymore of that bs about how Mac should get some slack because it was Todd Bowles' job to put the players in the best position to win. That's totally absolving the GM of his responsibility which is giving him the most talented players to win. Like I've been saying here since last year, these two guys Mac and Bowles are tied at the hip. They came in together and they need to be dumped together.

    I know you're totally on board with Mac being dumped too. He is bottom tier bad at his job in this league. We need someone who's at least in the top half of talent evaluators in the league. That would be a good start and I don't think a top 16 roster talent wise is too much of an ask.
     
  17. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    LOL No offense taken. Thanks for your thoughtful response.

    I probably should watch other teams more, but have largely lost interest in the NFL due to the sloppier play in general due to the last CBA, the number of players getting in trouble with the law for one thing or another, and my unhappiness with the Jets.

    Maybe our standards are different, but only a 25% return out of the top 20 picks doesn't sound very good to me. Maybe it is, and my expectations are unrealistic, but players taken that high should be topnotch players unless the draft is very limited talent-wise. Being a solid player and being a topnotch player are two very different things imo. Even giving you Beasley (who isn't a stud imo) you mentioned 7 players as being studs. 7 out of 64 doesn't seem like a very good percentage but maybe it is.

    Yes, I agree that Todd Gurley could wind up being a HOFer. He is a great RB.

    The reason I mentioned DeVante Parker is that he was a very talented kid coming out of college whom I had seen play several times, and earlier this season some posters here were speaking about him in glowing terms. I guess I wrongfully assumed that he had developed and was a very good receiver for the Dolphins. I'm sorry to learn that he isn't. I just googled his stats, and yeah, he hasn't done much. He hasn't even started that many games. Has he been injured a lot like Perryman?

    I meant to mention Cooper, I knew that he was very good his first couple of seasons, but then had had a down year or two, so wasn't sure that he was worth mentioning.

    I've heard that Gordon is good this season, but I wouldn't call him a stud. I had thought he would be coming out of college, but imo has had a disappointing career so far, and I know that some of the "experts" in the media have said things similar to that. I'm glad to hear that he may be finally realizing his potential.

    I liked Kendricks coming out of college and was surprised that he wasn't drafted higher, but hadn't heard anything about him since he was drafted.

    I didn't mention Beasley similar to Cooper, because he's basically a one-dimensional player, and aside from his 2nd season in the NFL has been less than impressive.

    Perryman? Meh

    When I quickly scanned through the first 3 rounds, I missed Landon Collins name; otherwise, I definitely would have mentioned him.

    As far as Tannys scouting dept. being BS, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think most GMs hit homeruns out of the gate in their first draft. Mac certainly could have done better and perhaps should have done better, but we don't know if he was bending over backwards to get players that Bowles wanted or if due to Woody's insistence that they win and make the playoffs if that affected his draft decisions at all. That draft is included in the cumulative lack of talent on the team however and on the misses, so it is taken into consideration.
     
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  18. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Great post, but I'm going to be a dick and nitpick you that Cooper was taken before our pick.
     
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