So I have been spending some time just watching game tape of draft prospects that are possibilities for us at number three and I have to say that Josh Allen concerns me a bit as a prospect. I don't think he will be a bust, but I think if the expectation is for him to be a dominant edge rusher I just don't see it. I noticed that he hardly gets home on his initial rush and a lot of his sacks either came when he was not blocked at all or if plays break down and QB holds ball too long. He had trouble getting off blocks once lineman got hands on him, as he seems to only be using speed to get around and doesn't have an arsenal of moves. His hands aren't that strong or violent like guys like Lawrence or Mack..... Ironically, my comp for him is Anthony Barr, like how he is used for the Vikings. He will be solid linebacker who can do a little of everything, but not dominant in any category. I think good coaching and continued work in the weight room can augment some of this, but watching him and Bosa is like night and day.....Bosa has incredible strength and beats double teams at times. IMO, this draft has one bullet proof pass rusher and thats Bosa.....you can make an argument that Bosa, Q. Williams and D. White are the safest if you go front 7 with your pick. Best case scenario if Bosa is gone....trade down to the highest bidder and build quality depth with high floor picks.....(Bradbury, White, Hollywood Brown, Hockenson, etc.)
As a Bosa fan and someone who can only dream of Bosa still on the board @ pick #3; I can't agree. Josh Allen is a beast SEC pass rusher. Rated last year pound for pound as the Nation's #1 rated pass rusher for a reason. If Bosa is gone I'd love him a Jet. I want Bosa but the more I learn about Allen the more I'm intrigued by him as a pass rusher. He's way more of a Clowney than a Barr. Barr had 10 sacks his final season with UCLA. This Allen kid is coming off a 17 sack senior season. To be fair not even Clowney was putting up these types of pass rushing #'s while within the SEC @ South Carolina. I don't know which game film you've been watching man but Allen to me looks legit. It's beyond the 17 sacks last year too. What he's done for especially Kentucky has been absolutely legit. As he was everywhere on the field for them. 88 tackles (21.5 for loss), 5 Forced Fumbles, 4 Passes Defended, 2 Fumble Recoveries etc, etc those are monster #'s. Those #'s put up within the SEC were against opposing teams that were forced to specifically game plan for Allen due to Allen himself being by far Kentucky's best player. Put him on Ohio State's defense and he might've had 20+ sacks. Kid is scary good man. I don't think the gap between Bosa and Allen is as big as you feel it is but only time will tell they say. I won't complain draft night I just hope either one of Bosa or Allen are lined up right behind on Leonard Williams with one goal in mind; ripping the QB's head off. We land an outside pass rusher or even Q. Williams @ NT/DT and I feel that L.Williams will cause havock because of it. He needs help out there within those trenches.
I totally disagree. Allen isn't as polished or pro-ready as Bosa, but he had much better production against better competition than Bosa without solid hand usage, only 2 rush moves and no counter moves. If Allen was the inferior prospect you claim, he wouldn't have been able to do that, especially without much around him whereas Bosa played on a stacked team. Once Allen learns good hand usage, another rush move and a couple of counter moves, I believe he will be superior to Bosa, maybe far superior. Bosa's game is more about power, not speed or bend, and I believe he is better suited to a 4-3 DE position, and wouldn't be as effective as a 3-4 OLB. Allen is a better prospect for the 3-4 imo.
Jordan Jenkins is not even close to Bosa. Allen is pretty close. Not sure the film you watched. Maybe you can evaluate talent better than myself, but in the Kentucky games I watched Allen looked amazing.
Great Post.. On March 9 I got into this with Harpua in the previous thread breaking down tape of the Pass rushers and several guys had hissy fits when I said Bosa is overtopping Allen...Josh A is a lot of finesse but franklly didn't see the QB on MSU game tape in trouble that much. Agree...trade down if possible and I would take FSU pass Rusher Burns NC feels that Bosa is more a 4-3 guy and maybe Iam wrong then ..but the guy is too powerful a beast to pass on...Williams will have a job for him I am sure ahahahah
Allen has a lower floor but higher ceiling , but i understand what you mean because Bosa like his brother is bust proof he is a very safe pick you know he gonna get steady production.
I came away from that conversation with the realization that you have no idea what your looking at. In a game where he had several pressures, hits, and a couple of holds against him you find him ineffective. Its not worth debating the blind.
You have not seen Bosa setting the edge in the run game if you are thinking he would not be effective as a 3-4 OLB. It is very hard to develop pass-rush moves, Von Miller maybe one of the last to come in the league with very few moves and be a pro bowl / all pro caliber player. Allen could become the next Von Miller, but he could also become the next Bud Dupree, so to say Allen is far superior is insane. Perhaps in terms of versatility and athleticism, Josh Allen has Bosa beat. That said, I do not mind Josh Allen @ 3, I think he can develop into a hell of a player. I don't think we will be able to get Bosa anyway. Bosa also has a very good natural bend, and it can compliment his speed and power. He doesn't have Josh Allen speed, but it's good enough at the next level. I would understand Clelin Ferrell as a typical 4-3 DE, but not Bosa.
You guys don't need to worry about this. Mac has got the best luck in history when it comes to having the stud everybody is talking about dropping to us. Bosa on the 3 seems like a lock. I'd rather trade down beforehand just in case but if we wait until the 3 he's going to be there.
Bosa is a better POA run defender. He can hold the line very well on running plays. Allen is a traditional 34 edge rusher. He can get skinny on run plays and beat gaps, but he's not a set the edge and hold it guy. Allen is much more experienced in coverage as a 34 olb would be compared to a pure 43 end. I don't think we can go wrong with either of them. It all comes down to preference of skill set IMO I'll be happy with either one.
Maybe Mac should utilize his luck in the mid rounds by drafting via dart board, it can't get any worse after all.
Watch it be Quinnen Williams ... people are talking about him too as the best player in this draft. Leonard Williams redux? Imagine taking a similar player in Williams to replace Leonard Williams? Pretty much a wasted #3 pick right there.
Leo had protype size and length at the position, Q does not. It will be interesting to see what teams are still valuing at the top of round one this year.
Q might be a little bit stronger, but their combine #s are nearly identical. They are legitimately the same player IMO, both take on double teams ... I don't think either are Aaron Donald type players. To me, the Cardinals are the biggest question mark. The 49ers I think, we all have an idea on what they need to do. They need an edge presence just like the Jets. Both teams, drafted interior lineman for years.
RIF I said that I thought Bosa wouldn't be AS effective as a 3-4 OLB as he would be as a 4-3 DE, not that he wouldn't be effective at all. I also didn't say that Allen is "far superior" to Bosa. I said that I thought he could be superior, maybe far superior ONCE HE LEARNS GOOD HAND USAGE, ANOTHER RUSH MOVE AND A COUPLE OF COUNTER MOVES. You're obviously just in such a hurry to try to discredit anything I say at every opportunity that you're just discrediting yourself and making yourself look like you have little reading comprehension. The joke's on you, and it's really pathetic that you continue to harbor a grudge of some kind. I've moved past that. For the sake of the board and your own mental health, I urge you to do the same. I acknowledge when you make a good post that I agree with and click on "like." I ignored your cheap shot when I came back. Grow up. Maybe you prefer a 3-4 OLB who mainly sets the edge and isn't as good a pass rusher and can't drop into coverage effectively. I don't. The whole reason one seeks to add a "pass rusher" is for that very thing. Allen sets the edge just fine. He is also more effective vs the run than Bosa. Bosa makes few plays vs the run. Allen has made a ton. Allen is light years better than Bosa at dropping into coverage. I've said that I wouldn't be unhappy if the Jets wound up taking Bosa and would root for him. I just don't think he's going to be as good a pro as Allen.
Take a fucking chill pill. When you say, "Bosa wouldn't be as effective as a 3-4 OLB" it's a very uneducated assessment. The only thing Allen does better is cover the field. It's not easy to just develop pass rush moves. Even if Allen develops those moves, I don't think Allen will be far superior either and I like Allen as I stated before. The Jets need someone that can generate a shit-ton of pressures and get the defense off the field, that is what I am looking for first and foremost. Both players can do it, but Bosa is far more ahead in terms of the utilization of his moves and technique. Dropping into coverage is cool n all, but I think the Jets have other linebackers now that can cover the field. Bosa doesn't make very few plays against the run? He actually has a ridiculous rip move that allows him to shed blocks, that OSU defense was shit all year without him.
Q. Williams would be a wasted pick if the jets play 3-4! Why waste a pick on a guy who would spend all day "blocking/occupying" OL so linebackers can make the plays? Foley F. could do the same thing.
Tell that to the OP...>>>>>>> "I noticed that he hardly gets home on his initial rush and a lot of his sacks either came when he was not blocked at all or if plays break down and QB holds ball too long. He had trouble getting off blocks once lineman got hands on him, as he seems to only be using speed to get around and doesn't have an arsenal of moves. His hands aren't that strong or violent like guys like Lawrence or Mack....." Are both of us blind? You like him better than Bosa? Yeah I get it...
exactly. I mean if this were an elite NT prospect that could stop the run and rush the passer I would be all game, like Kris Jenkins back in the day. Not a lot of those type of players come into the league
Yes, you must both be objectively blind. Allen was the most productive pass rusher in college football this year. He had 17 sacks despite dropping into coverage almost much as he was asked to rush the passer. He was the highest graded edge defender in college football and won the Chuck Bednarik and Bronko Nagurski trophies for it. Josh Allen literally vitalized a typically pedestrian football program and led them to a bowl victory. I like Bosa and think he'll be a good NFL player, but he didn't even play in his bowl game. Sure, Allen doesn't have a wealth of pass rush moves, but guys coming out of college rarely do. What he does have is elite speed, bend, and athleticism. He also has a very good hand usage and gets off blocks extremely well with a swipe move. Bottom line is that his ceiling is much higher than Bosa's and he's got significantly more versatility.
