[Backup QB]

This is about Rex Ryan, not Tebow. Mods if you feel this has too much of a Tebow flavor to it, please move.

All I've heard about Rex Ryan is that he's a brash, dynamic, no fear type of leader. In contrast, John Fox is viewed as ultra-conservative footballwise. But when push came to shove, Fox went ahead and took a gamble on Tebow when Orton failed... and he did it in week 6. He saw the signs that they were going nowhere and made the change. We may argue on whether the offense he created for Tebow was the best one for him, but hey, they implemented it in a bye week and rolled with it. It may have been the defense, it may have been the special teams, it may have been the coaching... it may have been anything but Tebow according to many people, but the fact is they won enough games to win the division, get into the playoffs and win a playoff game.

The end result is that the Broncos had a positive attitude going into 2012. They obviously greatly improved their QB position by signing HOFer Peyton Manning. Even the staunchest Tebow fan will not argue that. But even still, the Broncos would have at least been in decent shape with Tebow starting. 10 wins would not have been a stretch.

So what I'm asking you all is... is Rex Ryan a forward enough thinking coach for your tastes? It's not about Tebow. He could have gone to McElroy and it still would have shown boldness. If you look at Pete Carroll in SEA, he ditched the safer choice Flynn (who was paid a ton of money) for the riskier but higher upside Russell Wilson and look at the success. Look at Harbaugh going to Kaepernick over Smith. I'm not surprised by Carroll and Harbaugh though. I was surprised by Fox, though... and even more so by Ryan *not* making the switch due to his perceived fearlessness and the image he portrays. Even this week, he went back to Sanchez instead of rolling the dice in a meaningless game.

I understand not wanting to start Tebow for reasons of insecurity on his passing ability, or the implications of if he does well against the Bills. I understand sticking with Sanchez longer than Fox did with Orton, because the Jets season wasn't lost after the first 5 games.

Still, the question remains... is Ryan too conservative as a head coach? Why or Why not?

[RuJFan]

Yeah, it does have too much Tebow flavor

[Jon_Snow]

Rex believes his defense can win the game. Everything else is secondary to it. He only wants an offense to score just enough to win, clock control with ground and pound. So I guess you could classify that as conservative. But I think he is finding out that straight ground n pound is outdated and if you don't have the personnel to match your philosophy it's not going to work.

[Backup QB]

I think there is an element of false bravado working here with Rex Ryan. Kind of like the loudmouth in school who gets beat up one day by the quiet guy who is actually the tough guy. That's what Rex reminds me of.

I think he is a good defensive coach, but he doesn't have the forward vision and ability to make wise decisions overall that a head coach needs. You have to evaluate your personnel and make adjustments. You can't just go with the system you thought up during the off-season, before your team has multiple injuries and/or bad incumbent starter play. At some point, you go back to the drawing board and make adjustments. That is where you see the value of a leader... adaptability during adversity.

[DirtySanchez]

I have wondered to myself....had we drafted Russell Wilson would Rex have had the courage to sit Sanchez for him, as Pete Carroll did with Flynn? Or would we have heard "Sanchez gives us the best chance to win" over and over again.

[KurtTheJetsFan]

Originally Posted by Jon_Snow

Rex believes his defense can win the game. Everything else is secondary to it. He only wants an offense to score just enough to win, clock control with ground and pound. So I guess you could classify that as conservative. But I think he is finding out that straight ground n pound is outdated and if you don't have the personnel to match your philosophy it's not going to work.

He's learning that ground & pound only works against inferior opponents & when you are protecting a lead. It fails miserably when you are playing from behind & against elite talent. There's no escaping the inevitability that you will end up in a shootout in certain games.

[Backup QB]

Originally Posted by DirtySanchez

I have wondered to myself....had we drafted Russell Wilson would Rex have had the courage to sit Sanchez for him, as Pete Carroll did with Flynn? Or would we have heard "Sanchez gives us the best chance to win" over and over again.

That's exactly what I'm getting at. Good question.

You don't run the same system for Wilson that you do for Sanchez. It would require somewhat of a different offense. Would he be willing to 1) start Wilson and 2) modify his four year old game plan?

I don't think so, and I think that is why he just doesn't have what it takes. I don't think Fox is that great an offensive coach, but he did have some balls last year. This year, he looks like an offensive genius, but really, Peyton Manning is the offensive coordinator of the Broncos. Give Rex someone like Peyton who will basically take over the offensive decisions and he may have a shot. But a free agent HOF veteran QB like Peyton Manning comes around once in a generation. Can't really wait for that to happen.

[usc1978]

I think Wilson could run this offense just fine. Tebow can't run a pro offense.

[ajax]

Originally Posted by DirtySanchez

I have wondered to myself....had we drafted Russell Wilson would Rex have had the courage to sit Sanchez for him, as Pete Carroll did with Flynn? Or would we have heard "Sanchez gives us the best chance to win" over and over again.

Agreed. When it comes to offense Rex does come off as scared & clueless. During the Shotty years he was hands off & didn't even know Holmes was pulled out of the game.

He states that he's finally gonna be accountable for the offense & finally get more involved in the every day offense & it looked pretty damn horrible. Forget the lack of talent, how about the execution? So many timeouts & penalties for not being able to line up for a play. This BS wildcat crap. The few times Sanchez looked like he's on a roll he'll sit on the sidelines. Idiot moves like Tebow gets the 3rd drive no matter how struggling Sanchez is doing.

Rex is aggressive on defense but on offense he's scared & lacking any imagination. All the Rex supporters here feel a really good OC is needed so Rex can go back to being hands off. Also, when is the last time the Jets offensively came out of halftime with adjustments & shown an improved offense?

Rex talks like he's got big balls but plays/coaches scared offensively. Changing an offense for Tebow is something Rex would never attempt. If not for Sanchez feelings getting hurt by all the booing, would Rex have even pulled the plug on Sanchez initially?

[Backup QB]

Originally Posted by usc1978

I think Wilson could run this offense just fine. Tebow can't run a pro offense.

This thread is about Rex Ryan, not Tim Tebow.

[TNJet]

I bought what Rex was selling but his actions speaks volumes over his words. Rex has to go.

[BrowningNagle]

Originally Posted by Backup QB

This is about Rex Ryan, not Tebow. Mods if you feel this has too much of a Tebow flavor to it, please move.

All I've heard about Rex Ryan is that he's a brash, dynamic, no fear type of leader. In contrast, John Fox is viewed as ultra-conservative footballwise. But when push came to shove, Fox went ahead and took a gamble on Tebow when Orton failed... and he did it in week 6. He saw the signs that they were going nowhere and made the change. We may argue on whether the offense he created for Tebow was the best one for him, but hey, they implemented it in a bye week and rolled with it. It may have been the defense, it may have been the special teams, it may have been the coaching... it may have been anything but Tebow according to many people, but the fact is they won enough games to win the division, get into the playoffs and win a playoff game.

The end result is that the Broncos had a positive attitude going into 2012. They obviously greatly improved their QB position by signing HOFer Peyton Manning. Even the staunchest Tebow fan will not argue that. But even still, the Broncos would have at least been in decent shape with Tebow starting. 10 wins would not have been a stretch.

So what I'm asking you all is... is Rex Ryan a forward enough thinking coach for your tastes? It's not about Tebow. He could have gone to McElroy and it still would have shown boldness. If you look at Pete Carroll in SEA, he ditched the safer choice Flynn (who was paid a ton of money) for the riskier but higher upside Russell Wilson and look at the success. Look at Harbaugh going to Kaepernick over Smith. I'm not surprised by Carroll and Harbaugh though. I was surprised by Fox, though... and even more so by Ryan *not* making the switch due to his perceived fearlessness and the image he portrays. Even this week, he went back to Sanchez instead of rolling the dice in a meaningless game.

I understand not wanting to start Tebow for reasons of insecurity on his passing ability, or the implications of if he does well against the Bills. I understand sticking with Sanchez longer than Fox did with Orton, because the Jets season wasn't lost after the first 5 games.

Still, the question remains... is Ryan too conservative as a head coach? Why or Why not?

Rex isn't risk averse at all.

I know you just started following this organization this year and you have a dog in this fight so your opinions are skewed, but he's shown throughout his career in NY that he's not afraid to take risks.

Considering he DID the very same thing you allude to in what Seattle and San Fran did this year in 2009, starting a very green rookie Mark Sanchez over the safer Kellen Clemens should be proof enough.

He also did the very same thing at the RB position, giving rookie Shonn Greene the majority of the carries in the playoffs instead of the safer choice in veteran Thomas Jones, who led the offense to the top Rushing attack in the NFL

Other examples:
Going for the win on 4th down late in the San Diego playoff game... Signing off on trades for disgruntled vets in Edwards 09', Holmes '10, Cromartie '10..

Everyone knows your point behind this thread is because you want Tebow to play.

Rex has always taken risks here in the NY and the reason he didn't play Tebow this year is not because he's afraid of anything, it's not because he had anything personal against the guy, it's because he sees these guys everyday in practice and can see Tebow is a terrible QB and would be a bad choice to start.

Tebow was brought in solely to run the WC because of success Rex had with Brad Smith. The problem is Brad Smith is/was better at running the WC than Tebow, and if he can't succeed at that position for whatever reason, then there's no role for him.

As for Sunday, it's impossible to adjust his entire offense in 2 days for Tebow, especially for a meaningless contest in Buffalo. You also have to factor in that Tebow is halfway out the door anyway so why even bend over backwards to start the kid.

[BrowningNagle]

Originally Posted by Backup QB

This thread is about Rex Ryan, not Tim Tebow.

Don't kid yourself

[LongTimeJetsFan]

More rationalization of Tebow not playing. We know, the Jets are morons and pussies for not playing the great Tebow at QB.

Then their's the fact that Tebow fucking blows.

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

[IIMeanDeanII]

Tebow is not a good QB. He will never be a good QB in this league. Unless he changes positions, he will be out of the league sooner rather than later. IMO.

[Backup QB]

Originally Posted by LongTimeJetsFan

More rationalization of Tebow not playing. We know, the Jets are morons and pussies for not playing the great Tebow at QB.

Then their's the fact that Tebow fucking blows.

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

Originally Posted by Backup QB

This is about Rex Ryan, not Tebow. Mods if you feel this has too much of a Tebow flavor to it, please move.

All I've heard about Rex Ryan is that he's a brash, dynamic, no fear type of leader. In contrast, John Fox is viewed as ultra-conservative footballwise. But when push came to shove, Fox went ahead and took a gamble on Tebow when Orton failed... and he did it in week 6. He saw the signs that they were going nowhere and made the change. We may argue on whether the offense he created for Tebow was the best one for him, but hey, they implemented it in a bye week and rolled with it. It may have been the defense, it may have been the special teams, it may have been the coaching... it may have been anything but Tebow according to many people, but the fact is they won enough games to win the division, get into the playoffs and win a playoff game.

The end result is that the Broncos had a positive attitude going into 2012. They obviously greatly improved their QB position by signing HOFer Peyton Manning. Even the staunchest Tebow fan will not argue that. But even still, the Broncos would have at least been in decent shape with Tebow starting. 10 wins would not have been a stretch.

So what I'm asking you all is... is Rex Ryan a forward enough thinking coach for your tastes? It's not about Tebow. He could have gone to McElroy and it still would have shown boldness. If you look at Pete Carroll in SEA, he ditched the safer choice Flynn (who was paid a ton of money) for the riskier but higher upside Russell Wilson and look at the success. Look at Harbaugh going to Kaepernick over Smith. I'm not surprised by Carroll and Harbaugh though. I was surprised by Fox, though... and even more so by Ryan *not* making the switch due to his perceived fearlessness and the image he portrays. Even this week, he went back to Sanchez instead of rolling the dice in a meaningless game.

I understand not wanting to start Tebow for reasons of insecurity on his passing ability, or the implications of if he does well against the Bills. I understand sticking with Sanchez longer than Fox did with Orton, because the Jets season wasn't lost after the first 5 games.

Still, the question remains... is Ryan too conservative as a head coach? Why or Why not?

LTJF, I am not looking for justification for Ryan to have started Tebow. I clearly stated that it wasn't about Tebow. You can't have this discussion without mentioning Tebow's name, though... he is part of the equation. This was about the head coach, Rex Ryan and his risk aversion.

I'm disappointed that this was moved because I wanted to get more commentary from the main forum members and not the usual pro-Tebow anti-Tebow crowd.

You may as well close this thread, because now it will definitely become a thread about Tim Tebow and we have 1,000,000 threads discussing him in the Tebowmania forum.

Just close/lock this thread please.

[CowboysFan]

Originally Posted by DirtySanchez

I have wondered to myself....had we drafted Russell Wilson would Rex have had the courage to sit Sanchez for him, as Pete Carroll did with Flynn? Or would we have heard "Sanchez gives us the best chance to win" over and over again.

You know the answer to that question And the answer is no , Sanchez would have played. One of the reasons for that would have been Sparano , who clearly would not have taken advantage of Wilson's skill.

[Backup QB]

Originally Posted by IIMeanDeanII

Tebow is not a good QB. He will never be a good QB in this league. Unless he changes positions, he will be out of the league sooner rather than later. IMO.

See what I mean? This ain't about Tebow. BTW, LOL @ an OSU fan commenting on Tebow or UF at all. We know you guys hate all things UF due to the beatdowns received at UF's hands. I'll admit I don't like you guys either. I'll root for you guys a little bit now though because I liked Urban Meyer and what he did for us. You guys will win a National Championship within 3 years under Meyer. Might have won this year if you weren't suspended.

Lock it.

[sunbeam]

It's all irrelevant now.

I don't think Ryan is going to accomplish anything in New York. If he comes back next season, expect more of the same. I've seen some people say bringing in Tebow affected Sanchez's head, I doubt this, but if it did that means you still have a problem at qb.

Leaving aside Tebow, this is the first season since Parcells that I have followed the Jets. I think you guys are nuts if you blame anything about this season on Tebow. This organization is the poster child for dumpster fires. It's a total mess from the front office, to the coaching staff, to the players, and to the owner probably too.

Outsider here, but if I were the owner of the Jets, next week the front office and whole coaching staff would be fired. I'd knock on wood and hope my next hire would be the person who could do something with this (no matter what anyone says it's always a guessing game as to what they can do, unless they already have a track record as a head coach, then sometimes it doesn't work as well in a new spot).

I'd figure on my new guy dumping about half the players, and us going through a two or three year rebuilding program. I say two or three years because if you have the right team running things you see results start to happen fairly quickly.

A long winded way of saying it doesn't matter if Ryan is risk adverse, because he is a poor head coach. He should never be anything more than a dc in the NFL.

[BeastBeach]

Originally Posted by Backup QB

See what I mean? This ain't about Tebow. BTW, LOL @ an OSU fan commenting on Tebow or UF at all. We know you guys hate all things UF due to the beatdowns received at UF's hands. I'll admit I don't like you guys either. I'll root for you guys a little bit now though because I liked Urban Meyer and what he did for us. You guys will win a National Championship within 3 years under Meyer. Might have won this year if you weren't suspended.

Lock it.

Man you are puh-thetic