[alleycat9]

Originally Posted by KurtTheJetsFan

Fair points but a couple things to keep in mind..

1. It's fashionable to say it's Rex's players..or Mangini's players..but other than input the personnel of this organization falls on Tannenbaum/Bradway.Nobody else.

2. The Jets window for contention was 2008 to 2010. They had some minor holes..but for the most part they fielded an extremely talented, complete team. Jets gambled away SOME long term for the short term to try & get over the top. It didn't work. Granted, they haven't come out & admitted it to the public..but this current team IS in somewhat of a rebuilding project. So if you want to say that Rex has "his guys" now..fine..but there are obvious holes on this team who don't exactly represent Rex's handpicked talent.

3. No doubt the Jets need to get the PR situation resolved. But a large portion of it is a result of losing. The jets go back to winning & you'll see all those former players aligning themselves as Rex lovers/apologists. That's just the way the sports media world works right now. Jets open up their operation more than any other franchise in football. Therefore, they are more subject to the trials & tribulations of the sports media world. What you end up w/ is extreme peaks & valleys. Win & it isn't an issue. It's that simple.

do you think they sold their soul for that 2 year window? with the type of guys they brought in and the 1 year deals and the blatant dismissal of quite a few really key 2nd tier players?

the pr situation just makes everything 10 times worse. i think things would be alot less volatile if it werent for the whole everyone can say whatever they want mentality and bravado that has been displayed in the past.

[alleycat9]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

a team that won 3 SBs in 4 years and was 18-0 has slightly different standards than a team that hadn't won a playoff game since 2004 and hadn't won 2 playoff games in a single postseason since 1982.

why?

remember hermie said, you play to win the game....

that should be everyones standard whether they win every year like alabama or they lose every year like vanderbilt.

i see no reason why any team would have a different standard than any other.

[alleycat9]

Originally Posted by xxedge72x

There's no point in even comparing him to Tomlin and Belichick. You can't look at the Jets through a microscope and single out any one person... Rex Ryan, Mark Sanchez, Mike Tannenbaum, or whoever else is getting blamed right now.

Every team is a sea of moving parts all of which contribute to the greater success or failure of the franchise. While the Patriots have the "ideal" configuration of having its two major points be its HC and QB, it isn't everything because the smaller pieces need to do their part too. If the Patriots smaller pieces were doing their part, the Patriots would have won even more Super Bowls since their last.

Right now the Jets have numerous problems going all across the map. There is no silver bullet to fix this team. Firing Mike Tannenbaum won't save the Jets. Firing Rex Ryan won't save the Jets. Cutting Mark Sanchez won't save the Jets. The Jets are a big stinking mess right now. They are toxic.

Organizationally, a decision needs to be made whether to try to cut out the fat and improve across the board over time, or to just blow the whole thing up with an atom bomb and start from scratch. The fact that the Super Bowl is going to be in NY next year leads me to believe Woody J will hold off on using the nuke one more year at least.

So moving forward into next season, out of all the problems the Jets do have, Rex is lower on the list than say Tannenbaum and Sanchez. Again, we're not going with the nuke theory so changes are only going to happen in limited areas. Rex will survive this debacle, and there's a strong chance Sanchez will too because of his contract and the fact that there's unlikely to be a "franchise QB" in this upcoming draft that's worth making an investment in.

If Woody drops the bomb then all bets are off... otherwise you need to gauge where to sit pat and where to cut to improve for next year... Rex will stay.

your right there is no reason to compare him to tomlin or bellichick, just like there is no comparing him to joe walton. peoples reasoning for keeping him around cant be that he has been better than bruce coslet.

it has to be things like you pointed out.

i could see it going either way, i could see them keeping everyone involved and trying to add some pieces to fool themselves into thinking they could make a run at the sb next year in metlife.

i could also see tanny going because of his terrible job putting talent on the field, rex going because of his apparent total lack of control.

its really all up to the guy that scares me the most... woody johnson, he has been quick with the trigger in the past but has also at times been willing to let things go up and down in mediocrity.

[JetBlue]

Originally Posted by alleycat9

why?

remember hermie said, you play to win the game....

that should be everyones standard whether they win every year like alabama or they lose every year like vanderbilt.

i see no reason why any team would have a different standard than any other.

you have the same ultimate goal, but you have to have a realistic perspective of the quality of your team and how close or far they are from achieving that goal.

you think a team that goes 1-15 the year before is the same quality as a team that goes 15-1, and thus both teams should view themselves identically? of course not, but that is the corner you paint yourself in when you say every team should view the performance of their seasons identically if they don't win the Super Bowl.

a team that wins 3 games one year and 11 games the next is going to look at that 11 wins differently than a team that wins 14 games one year and only 11 the next. if you can't tell the difference between those two hypothetical teams and think everything is even than you have a severe lack of perspective.

[ILL-AL]

Its the most joy ive had in this team EVER lol.

[tdorland]

There is no such thing as divisional round champion. Cool thread bro.

[alleycat9]

Originally Posted by JetBlue

you have the same ultimate goal, but you have to have a realistic perspective of the quality of your team and how close or far they are from achieving that goal.

you think a team that goes 1-15 the year before is the same quality as a team that goes 15-1, and thus both teams should view themselves identically? of course not, but that is the corner you paint yourself in when you say every team should view the performance of their seasons identically if they don't win the Super Bowl.

a team that wins 3 games one year and 11 games the next is going to look at that 11 wins differently than a team that wins 14 games one year and only 11 the next. if you can't tell the difference between those two hypothetical teams and think everything is even than you have a severe lack of perspective.

sure you will, but if you are then happy just to win 11 games and fall back to winning 8 or 7 you cant go and say hey we won 11 games and we have won more than 3 every year and be proud of yourself for 5 years.

even the 1-15 colts have to have the goal of winning the superbowl and they may not win it this year but they sure arent settling for 4 wins just because they only won 1 last year.

they were once a down trodden franchise like the jets, they hadnt won anything in years and years. and they changed their attitude and became a winner, now they have fallen back but are right back on the horse possibly getting into the playoffs.

[alleycat9]

Originally Posted by tdorland

There is no such thing as divisional round champion. Cool thread bro.

did you read past the first post?

[championjets69]

Originally Posted by ILL-AL

Its the most joy ive had in this team EVER lol.

I think U R totally forgetting SB3

[1968jetsfan]

Originally Posted by Revis is your daddy

Thank you for this absolutely terrible thread. 2 teams win divisonal round games in both leagues.

Does it matter that the Giants won the superbowl last year? Does it effect this season? What the fuck is your point.

Agreed, people barely remember who lost in the superbowl and only the most football geekworthy remember who lost in the conference championship. Being divisional champion is like being the 4th runner up in a beauty pageant.

[displacedfan]

The questions isn't direct enough. Does it matter to how the teams performs this week, no. Does it matter to how the Jets approached their offseasons following it, yes. Does it influnece how Sanchez and Rex are going to perform this week, no. Does it show you Rex and Sanchez can be a successful combination, yes.

[JetBlue]

Originally Posted by alleycat9

sure you will, but if you are then happy just to win 11 games and fall back to winning 8 or 7 you cant go and say hey we won 11 games and we have won more than 3 every year and be proud of yourself for 5 years.

even the 1-15 colts have to have the goal of winning the superbowl and they may not win it this year but they sure arent settling for 4 wins just because they only won 1 last year.

they were once a down trodden franchise like the jets, they hadnt won anything in years and years. and they changed their attitude and became a winner, now they have fallen back but are right back on the horse possibly getting into the playoffs.

again, nobody is saying you are happy just to win 11 games and not win the Super Bowl. but perspective tells you whether an 11 win season is a failure or success, and that is dependent upon more than simply just those 11 wins in isolation or whether those 11 wins are in conjunction with a Super Bowl championship.

and you have zero credibility or authority to claim that the Colts turned their franchise around simply because of change of attitude. you don't know what their attitude was before or after. what we know is that they drafted a franchise QB and built around him, which has nothing to do with attitude. and they look like they have done it again.

beyond that, your celebration of the Colts getting back on the horse and getting into the playoffs contradicts your own point -- who cares about making the playoffs if success can only be judged by winning the Super Bowl?

[soxxx]

I think if you have a rookie QB you can't expect a Super Bowl. Id say 2009 was a complete success, it is the equivelant to winning the Super Bowl because we had a rookie QB at the helm.

2010 the goal was to finish, the QB was no longer a rookie. I know its difficult for sophmores to go all the way, but Ben did in 2004. I cant call 2010 a success because we did not really build on 2009. I also believe that the 2009 team was BETTER than the 2010 team. The 2009 team had a better defense and better run game, just not a better record.

Ask yourselves though, how many rookie QBs have made the Super Bowl? 0. Only Shaun King, Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, and Mark Sanchez have made championship games as rookies.

[lakersmetsjets49ers]

Different teams have different standards and expectations.

Granted the Jets didn't win the Super Bowl either year but I enjoyed the wins in San Diego and New England, enjoyed most of the first half of the Indy afc title game and was on edge during the 2nd half of the steeler game when they started to rally. Granted I would've loved to see them build on those runs and take the next step but for a team with minimal playoff success in my lifetime I enjoyed seeing them play well in the playoffs.

My expectations for the jets aren't as high as they are for the lakers where losing in the conference finals would be a shitty disappointing season to me.

The ultimate goal of every team in every sport is to win the championship but different teams have different expectations. Some teams hang banners for division titles, wild card playoff series wins in baseball, and conference champs, while some teams only hang championship banners. In that sense while they all share the same big ultimate goal, some organizations are happy with successes that don't result in a title while some only acknowledge championships.

[NewYorkEveryThing]

Parcell's took us to the AFCCG too! I am in the same boat. 1986 was my first real season as a fan of the jets because i hated the way the giants acted in there SB win. They had coke heads and wife beaters on that team. I felt bad for the jets and hoped to see them win one in my lifetime. I did not know it was gonna be 26 years and counting!

[alleycat9]

my point is its a losers mentality to celebrate a game that nobody really cares about as if it was the greatest win ever.

of course every year you have different expectations, nobody in football is going to feel like its superbowl or broke year in and year out.

of course it was fun, of course it was a fun year winning 11 regular season games and having a number of nail biter 4th quarter wins.

i just hate to see people hanging their hats on getting to the afc championship game and accepting what has turned into mediocrity, really worse than mediocrity when you add in all the extra shit simply because we made it to the afc cg 2 and 3 years ago.

[AbdulSalam]

Time to strap it on and go beat the Fkng Jags. 9-7 and we have a decent shot at making the tournament - anything can happen.

[GRNYT]

Originally Posted by The Dark Knight

Jets Coaches Playoff Wins in my Lifetime:
-Rex Ryan: 4
-Eric Mangini: 0
-Herm Edwards: 2
-Al Groh: 0
-Bill Parcells: 1
-Rich Kotite: 0 (Had as many regular season wins as Rex does playoff wins)
-Bruce Coslett: 0

So yeah........

any of those playoff wins lately? how about the record of 13-15 in the last 28 games?

[xxedge72x]

Originally Posted by GRNYT

any of those playoff wins lately? how about the record of 13-15 in the last 28 games?

Sorry to beat a dead horse... but what is the Jets record with Braylon Edwards, and what is it without?

Moving forward Braylon obviously is not the answer, but someone who can provide what he provided in his two years is.

[Moonshine]

No, it's like economics. Naturally, frictionally, there are going to be up and down years.


Because lets put it into context. Rookie QB, rookie HC. Our defense and running game brought us there.

Now.....

Kris Jenkins retired, Shaun Ellis.. You know, Bart Scott retired and some older slower guy started wearing his jersey. That pretty much was the nucleus of our defense. Lets not forget this year our very best player was carted off when we were two one. Wanna pretend that doesn't play a part?

Thomas Jones is gone. Ladanian Tomlinson is gone. Im not looking it up, but I'd bet they were responsible for pretty hefty percentages of our offense.

Lets also not forget Braylon Edwards, Jericho Cotchery, and even Plax. If you have a young struggling QB, and he is struggling and that's on him, but still he'd be doing better if he had the lineup he had in 09.

Who here has taken macroecon 101? Right now this is frictional. Down years due to factors beyond Rex Ryan's control. If it continues if it's cyclical then changes need to be made.

But come on dude... The best players on this team besides Revis, Cro, and Harris. Are fuckin rookies and sophmores. You knok... Give them some time