Karl Dunbar

laxin · 10-08-2012, 11:06 PM

So, I thought this guy was supposed to improve our defensive line... By a good amount.

Watching JJ Watt, a second year player who has been playing the position for only a few years, has some of the best hands I have seen from a defensive lineman. Its incredible how great he has become with only a year in the league.

So point is, this kid gets coached up incredibly well, and how are our defensive linemen developing? To say the least, the dont use their hand even half as well and I would say that this is a coaching a good amount of the problem.

I really would like to see an improvement in this area from them (hand technique) . Coples and Mo Wilk have all the talent in the world, they need to get coached up. I personally havent seen much improvement in the technique from the defensive linemen. Devito said that Dunbar put an emphasis on passrushing compared to last year, and it hasnt showed up at all.

PA Jetsfan · 10-08-2012, 11:10 PM

You watched a great play the game tonight. He was not coached up. He was a top draft choice, a known entity. Sorry.......

FlashGordon · 10-08-2012, 11:10 PM

Defensive Line isn't performing nearly as poor as the Linebackers.

About the DL, though, I hope Pouha gets healthy soon, because I don't think Kenrick Ellis is cutting it right now. He was on the ground an awful lot tonight, and not in a good way. Hell, I's like to see more of Damon Harrison at NT.

Anyway, it seems to me the big problem with our run D is that there aren't enough plays being made at the second level by our linebackers.

PJ4Ever · 10-08-2012, 11:14 PM

Damon Harrison almost saved the game for us with 2 great plays at the end there.

laxin · 10-08-2012, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PA Jetsfan

You watched a great play the game tonight. He was not coached up. He was a top draft choice, a known entity. Sorry.......

Oh yeah? A known entity that only started playing defensive end in 2009. Coples had the same draft # as him, we'll see how that turns out for us. Its laughable if you dont think that coaching has done a large part in his development. He was a great player in college, but he never looked like a future hall of famer like he does now.

Revis was picked 14th overall, you dont think he was coached up to be what he is now? Fuck coaches then, why do we need them, right?

PA Jetsfan · 10-08-2012, 11:43 PM

Listen a-hole. You came here acting like Dunbar moved us backwards and compared our guys' progress to that of the sack leader in the NFL. Go ahead and act like that was all coaching. It wasn't. Why do you think Mario is in Buffalo? Because they got the real deal.

laxin · 10-09-2012, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PA Jetsfan

Listen a-hole. You came here acting like Dunbar moved us backwards and compared our guys' progress to that of the sack leader in the NFL. Go ahead and act like that was all coaching. It wasn't. Why do you think Mario is in Buffalo? Because they got the real deal.

A-hole? So now this is a name calling game? I came here to point out that Karl Dunbar didn't live up to our expectations so far and that JJ Watt is a prime candidate of what raw talent and coaching can do. Whatever, I cant argue with someone who doesnt think that coaching has done a part in Watts development. You could go call the people saying our coaches suck in the other thread a-holes though...

rscherwin · 10-09-2012, 05:00 AM

Couple points:

1) Who is Karl Dunbar (I get he's our coach --- but you CAN NOT put the lack of defensive player progress on anyone other than the best DC in football, who runs the organziation)

2) The OP has a great point: Houston's success is about their organization, more than the talent of their players. They lost "top talent" and fill in effectively. Whether they're drafting right, or coaching right, or likely both -- this is an organization that has built a great model, where they Jets are completely dysfunctional, and have done little to develop their talent. Per the comment on developing Revis -- if his development is about coaching, then why does Cromartie continually "Mr all talent with little skills and awareness?" Why is our DL just not growing fast enough? Where is Demario Davis when we need LB youth?

Good thread OP, though I think you need to point this finger at the self proclaimed best DC in football. I think we should put him back at DC and let him learn a bit, and hire a great long-tenured coach at HC (if one even exists). For all we know, after 4 years of Sanchez, Rex might be secretly hoping to focus his time on his real passion - defense...

85inthehall · 10-09-2012, 06:38 AM

ESPN had a graphic up showing something line 12 players that have left Houston are are contributing players on other teams. They have drafted extremely well and have solid depth.

As for JJ Watt...physically he is a freak. Huge size, monster hand, vertical, fast....he is a matchup nightmare. He also has the benefit of being surrounded by top tier line backers and another solid end. Makes it a bit easier to be an impact when the offense has to account for several players.

Also wade Phillips .... Lousy head coach...but the man can run a defense.

displacedfan · 10-09-2012, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 85inthehall

ESPN had a graphic up showing something line 12 players that have left Houston are are contributing players on other teams. They have drafted extremely well and have solid depth.

As for JJ Watt...physically he is a freak. Huge size, monster hand, vertical, fast....he is a matchup nightmare. He also has the benefit of being surrounded by top tier line backers and another solid end. Makes it a bit easier to be an impact when the offense has to account for several players.

Also wade Phillips .... Lousy head coach...but the man can run a defense.

Look how long it took them to get there too. They just get adding piece after piece and formed an excellent team

85inthehall · 10-09-2012, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by displacedfan

Look how long it took them to get there too. They just get adding piece after piece and formed an excellent team

Front office was smart about not giving picks away. They made the correct signings of Joseph -- the guy I wanted when they were courting Nnamdi all summer.

Granted they destroyed Carr, but they have done will drafting defense. Foster is a good back, but anyone would be able to run against that Denver cut back blocking scheme.

Their big issue is the aside from Johnson they don't seem to have a scary receiver. They have yet to beat a top tier team this season and if they played Baltimore or San Fran that would lose.

TheCoolerGlennFoley · 10-09-2012, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laxinx57

Oh yeah? A known entity that only started playing defensive end in 2009. Coples had the same draft # as him, we'll see how that turns out for us. Its laughable if you dont think that coaching has done a large part in his development. He was a great player in college, but he never looked like a future hall of famer like he does now.

Revis was picked 14th overall, you dont think he was coached up to be what he is now? Fuck coaches then, why do we need them, right?

Wade Phillips version of a 3-4 allows/calls for defensive lineman to be playmakers more than any other team. That's part of the reason Watt has burst onto the scene.

He's also in his 4 year, whereas the most talented guys on the Jets line are in their first or second years.

Houston also has better linebackers which plays a large role.

Br4dw4y5ux · 10-09-2012, 11:02 AM

Maybe the Jets will get better defensive line play when the personnel better matches the scheme? It's no secret at this point that Rex is moving the Jets from a 3-4 to a 46. The problem is guys like Sione Pouha and Mike Devito have no role in a 46.

The 46 doesn't look for pegs with a motor. It looks for slanting disruptive ends that can win a 1-on-1 with a tackle and big guys in the middle who cannot be moved out 1-on-1. It demands that the big guys in the middle can get some push against the passing game and collapse the pocket.

Right now the Jets have a few of the pieces to run that 46 but they also have a few misfit toys. Coples and Ellis inside looks ok. Wilkerson at DE looks ok. Pouha and Devito just don't have roles that work. They're pegs for a 3-4.

10-08-2012, 11:06 PM	#1
laxin Totally Addicted Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Caught in the middle of Tebowmania Posts: 3,947 vCash: 650	Karl Dunbar So, I thought this guy was supposed to improve our defensive line... By a good amount. Watching JJ Watt, a second year player who has been playing the position for only a few years, has some of the best hands I have seen from a defensive lineman. Its incredible how great he has become with only a year in the league. So point is, this kid gets coached up incredibly well, and how are our defensive linemen developing? To say the least, the dont use their hand even half as well and I would say that this is a coaching a good amount of the problem. I really would like to see an improvement in this area from them (hand technique) . Coples and Mo Wilk have all the talent in the world, they need to get coached up. I personally havent seen much improvement in the technique from the defensive linemen. Devito said that Dunbar put an emphasis on passrushing compared to last year, and it hasnt showed up at all. __________________ TGG's 7 Round Mock Draft: Tennessee Titans GM San Francisco 49ers GM New England Patriots GM

10-09-2012, 06:38 AM	#9
85inthehall Totally Addicted Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,535 vCash: 2000	ESPN had a graphic up showing something line 12 players that have left Houston are are contributing players on other teams. They have drafted extremely well and have solid depth. As for JJ Watt...physically he is a freak. Huge size, monster hand, vertical, fast....he is a matchup nightmare. He also has the benefit of being surrounded by top tier line backers and another solid end. Makes it a bit easier to be an impact when the offense has to account for several players. Also wade Phillips .... Lousy head coach...but the man can run a defense. __________________ Fun Stuff Daily...that includes hot chicks in bikinis at http://www.funtasticus.com

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10-08-2012, 11:10 PM	#2
PA Jetsfan Starter Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 135 vCash: 500	You watched a great play the game tonight. He was not coached up. He was a top draft choice, a known entity. Sorry.......

10-08-2012, 11:14 PM	#4
PJ4Ever Totally Addicted Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,945 vCash: 2000	Damon Harrison almost saved the game for us with 2 great plays at the end there.

10-08-2012, 11:43 PM	#6
PA Jetsfan Starter Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 135 vCash: 500	Listen a-hole. You came here acting like Dunbar moved us backwards and compared our guys' progress to that of the sack leader in the NFL. Go ahead and act like that was all coaching. It wasn't. Why do you think Mario is in Buffalo? Because they got the real deal.

10-09-2012, 05:00 AM	#8
rscherwin TheGangGreen.com Regular Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New York Posts: 414 vCash: 2000	Couple points: 1) Who is Karl Dunbar (I get he's our coach --- but you CAN NOT put the lack of defensive player progress on anyone other than the best DC in football, who runs the organziation) 2) The OP has a great point: Houston's success is about their organization, more than the talent of their players. They lost "top talent" and fill in effectively. Whether they're drafting right, or coaching right, or likely both -- this is an organization that has built a great model, where they Jets are completely dysfunctional, and have done little to develop their talent. Per the comment on developing Revis -- if his development is about coaching, then why does Cromartie continually "Mr all talent with little skills and awareness?" Why is our DL just not growing fast enough? Where is Demario Davis when we need LB youth? Good thread OP, though I think you need to point this finger at the self proclaimed best DC in football. I think we should put him back at DC and let him learn a bit, and hire a great long-tenured coach at HC (if one even exists). For all we know, after 4 years of Sanchez, Rex might be secretly hoping to focus his time on his real passion - defense...

10-09-2012, 11:02 AM	#13
Br4dw4y5ux 2009 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 19,594 vCash: 2000	Maybe the Jets will get better defensive line play when the personnel better matches the scheme? It's no secret at this point that Rex is moving the Jets from a 3-4 to a 46. The problem is guys like Sione Pouha and Mike Devito have no role in a 46. The 46 doesn't look for pegs with a motor. It looks for slanting disruptive ends that can win a 1-on-1 with a tackle and big guys in the middle who cannot be moved out 1-on-1. It demands that the big guys in the middle can get some push against the passing game and collapse the pocket. Right now the Jets have a few of the pieces to run that 46 but they also have a few misfit toys. Coples and Ellis inside looks ok. Wilkerson at DE looks ok. Pouha and Devito just don't have roles that work. They're pegs for a 3-4.