[BroadwayMike]

I know Pete King is a GD shameless Pats homer, but what do you guys think of this pick:

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To me, this is no Haloti Ngata, this is Dwayne Robertson. Fuck the combine, watch the tape. The guy played in Confernce USA, not the SEC or Pac 12, and he had ONE play behind the line of scrimmage in all of 2011.

The only thing worse than getting Tebow would be drafting this guy.

And another note, what does this pick say about Kendrick Ellis? An admission already that he's a bust?

[laxin]

Most overrated player in the draft. Theres no way he is the pick at 16.

[JohnnyThaJet]

My thoughts on Poe from a previous thread:

Originally Posted by JohnnyThaJet

Poe is extremely overrated. He blew up the combine and put up great numbers but what did he do in college? Not much. And please dont bring up Ngata, yes they had similar numbers but one played against great competition while the other played against the likes of East Carolina, Tulsa, Marshall, Southern Miss, etc (Didnt play Houston). Yes, Southern Miss was ranked in the top 25 but was known for their high powered offense. Looking back to their game against The Golden Eagles what did Poe do? Lets see, he racked up a total of 1 tackle, against the best team he versed all year. They lost 44-7.

Lets look back at Poe's best two games last season:

Against Arkansas State he had 5 Total Tackles, 2.5 TFL. Not bad but against less competition I want to see more.

Against SMU he racked up a Total of 3 tackles, 1 sack, 1 TFL. He got a sack, hooray, but that isnt such an impressive stat line for being one of your best games.

Now lets look back at a highly ranked DT from last year, Nick Fairley, a dominating force at Auburn yet had the same hype as the extremely less productive Poe.

In 2010 Fairley racked up a total of 56 tackles, 11.5 sacks, and 24.0 TFL. Now where was he selected? #13.

His best games were against Alabama and LSU, the top 2 teams from this year, and highly ranked in 2010. His numbers?

Against Bama: 4 tackles, 2 sacks, 2.0 TFL

Against LSU: 6 tackles, 2.5 sacks, 3.5 TFL

Better stats against extremely better competition.

What I am trying to get across here is Poe is very VERY overrated. Watch his games he was never dominating against higher competition or even his own conference. The Jets are picking at #16 this year, there will be many solid prospects available at our pick, maybe even a steal or two. A player like Poe is not worth a shot on "potential" when A) DLine is one of the few positions on this team that has depth and B) We need to acquire a player who provides immediate impact.

Here is a few of his games, watch them, tell me where he looked like a dominating player.

[laxin]

Originally Posted by JohnnyThaJet

My thoughts on Poe from a previous thread:

Nice write up. I dont remember seeing this, but I agree with all of it. I hope some team is dumb enough to draft him in the top 15, because that means someone better will fall, but he deserves to be no where near that range. I honestly dont even think he should be drafted in the 1st round, because even then his football play doesnt even come close to his draft position...

Unless he falls to the 4th round or so, he’s going to be drafted solely on potential; nothing on his game tape is impressive or draws comparisons to Haloti Ngata.

[Sir]

Agreed with all, unfortunately I do think he is firmly on their radar.

[KurtTheJetsFan]

Originally Posted by BroadwayMike

I know Pete King is a GD shameless Pats homer, but what do you guys think of this pick:

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To me, this is no Haloti Ngata, this is Dwayne Robertson. Fuck the combine, watch the tape. The guy played in Confernce USA, not the SEC or Pac 12, and he had ONE play behind the line of scrimmage in all of 2011.

The only thing worse than getting Tebow would be drafting this guy.

And another note, what does this pick say about Kendrick Ellis? An admission already that he's a bust?

There was nothing wrong with Dewayne Robertson as a prospect or player beyond the fact that the jets gave up too much to get him. He started day 1 and stayed a starter throughout his entire career as a jet. He was a plus player for the majority of that time frame. A star? No. A good player? yes.

Furthermore Poe & Robertson have absolutely nothing in common otherwise. D rob was a 3 technique under tackle w/ an explosive burst to go along w/ a compact build, who was a disruptive force in the SEC. His weakness was short arms, hand placement and a degenerative knee condition.

Conversely, Poe is 6'5 340 Nose tackle w/ long arms & frame who played in conference USA.. He is NOT a 3 technique like D rob was. Sorry..the comparison is ridiculous.

Poe is an elite physical talent. Is he an impact starter year 1? No. he needs to learn how to use his hands and better leverage. With that said...let's bare in mind the guy was constantly being double/triple teamed & that conference USA consists of mostly quick spread offenses. Hard for a 340 lb nose tackle who's the prime focus via blocking assignments to make any type of impact against a quick passing spread offense.


I think he projects as a plus interior player who has the versatility to play in a multiple scheme. He needs to go to a team that has capable veterans in place that can set a good example. The team that drafts him needs to be patient. He can make some plays situationally early solely due to his size/burst..but to be a consistent performer he needs to learn proper technique w/ his hands & pad level. That comes with time.

[TheCoolerGlennFoley]

Can't see them going Poe. The spot for oversized, athletic defensive tackle with question marks is already filled by Ellis.

[Chrebet Fo' Ever]

King is crazy, lack of college production + lack of need for DL means no way we go in that direction.

Then again he has (and AGREES with) the Jaguars pulling another Tyson Alualu and drafting Stephen Gilmore with the 7th pick (I know his stock is rising a bit but top 10!?).

[Br4dw4y5ux]

Originally Posted by KurtTheJetsFan

There was nothing wrong with Dewayne Robertson as a prospect or player beyond the fact that the jets gave up too much to get him. He started day 1 and stayed a starter throughout his entire career as a jet. He was a plus player for the majority of that time frame. A star? No. A good player? yes.

Furthermore Poe & Robertson have absolutely nothing in common otherwise. D rob was a 3 technique under tackle w/ an explosive burst to go along w/ a compact build, who was a disruptive force in the SEC. His weakness was short arms, hand placement and a degenerative knee condition.

Conversely, Poe is 6'5 340 Nose tackle w/ long arms & frame who played in conference USA.. He is NOT a 3 technique like D rob was. Sorry..the comparison is ridiculous.

Poe is an elite physical talent. Is he an impact starter year 1? No. he needs to learn how to use his hands and better leverage. With that said...let's bare in mind the guy was constantly being double/triple teamed & that conference USA consists of mostly quick spread offenses. Hard for a 340 lb nose tackle who's the prime focus via blocking assignments to make any type of impact against a quick passing spread offense.


I think he projects as a plus interior player who has the versatility to play in a multiple scheme. He needs to go to a team that has capable veterans in place that can set a good example. The team that drafts him needs to be patient. He can make some plays situationally early solely due to his size/burst..but to be a consistent performer he needs to learn proper technique w/ his hands & pad level. That comes with time.

+1

Whatever D-Rob was he was not the kind of physical specimen that Poe is.

My gut tells me that if Poe winds up in a very physical culture with heavy esprit de corps that he's going to be very close to Haloti Ngata territory before he's done. Put him on the nose for the Steelers or Ravens (a very scary thought with Ngata already in the house) and he's very possibly an All-Pro in a couple of seasons.

If he winds up in on a team that is kind of rudderless, well he's not going to be helped by that much.

He'd be a good pick for the Jets if Rex was really salivating for him and he'd get the kind of work that's needed to make sure he develops. The Jets frontline culture isn't exactly the Steelers or the Ravens but everybody works hard and he'd have enough support to develop there. Put him on one of the really tight cultures though and he's got the potential to be an absolute monster.

[KurtTheJetsFan]

Originally Posted by Br4dw4y5ux

+1

Whatever D-Rob was he was not the kind of physical specimen that Poe is.

My gut tells me that if Poe winds up in a very physical culture with heavy esprit de corps that he's going to be very close to Haloti Ngata territory before he's done. Put him on the nose for the Steelers or Ravens (a very scary thought with Ngata already in the house) and he's very possibly an All-Pro in a couple of seasons.

If he winds up in on a team that is kind of rudderless, well he's not going to be helped by that much.

He'd be a good pick for the Jets if Rex was really salivating for him and he'd get the kind of work that's needed to make sure he develops. The Jets frontline culture isn't exactly the Steelers or the Ravens but everybody works hard and he'd have enough support to develop there. Put him on one of the really tight cultures though and he's got the potential to be an absolute monster.

I think he'd be a great fit for the Jets. Jets can afford to bring him along slowly,playing him mainly in obvious passing & goalline situations. If we can't upgrade the outside pass rush...upgrade the front 3 pass rush.Poe can get a push inside at nose as a pass rusher. I also think he he can play some outside 5 technique given his quickness/long arms.

Wilkerson/Ellis/Poe is an awfully intriguing front 3 moving forward. All 3 are plus size, can anchor & are long. They all bring something different to the table but compliment eachother well.

Wilkerson- Quick, power & athletic with long arms to create seperation. Quintessential weak side 5 technique or 1 gap in a 4-3 look.

Ellis-Big,strong & Wide body. Takes up a ton of space & pushes back the lineof scrimmage.Can play Nose & the 5 technique.Big time anchor type

Poe- Massive build to go along w/ long arms, explosion & good hip flex. Can defend the run & drop his hips to rush the passer. Can play nose or 5 technique as well as 2 gap in a 4-3 look.

[wildaces]

My question would be who did he play with? I don't care what division you play in, if you are the focus of the blocking scheme, you will not be very successful. Therefore, you put him on a team that his primary role is to take up blockers for the Line Backers you will see a completely different player.

If we were to draft Poe, he will do his job from day 1 taking up space. We can move Ellis out to DE, and Ellis will take up space. This will allow our OLB's free runs to the QB.

[wildaces]

Originally Posted by JohnnyThaJet

My thoughts on Poe from a previous thread:

Wow watching the game against Tulane I see multiple double teams, and quick passing. What do you think any DT would do to be effective? What I did see is good play recognition, and quick footwork. Especially on that 360 move he put on the Right quard.

In other game they never ran his way, and when they did he swallowed the ball carrier up. I did only watch about 3min of it though.

[wildaces]

Originally Posted by Br4dw4y5ux

+1

Whatever D-Rob was he was not the kind of physical specimen that Poe is.

My gut tells me that if Poe winds up in a very physical culture with heavy esprit de corps that he's going to be very close to Haloti Ngata territory before he's done. Put him on the nose for the Steelers or Ravens (a very scary thought with Ngata already in the house) and he's very possibly an All-Pro in a couple of seasons.

If he winds up in on a team that is kind of rudderless, well he's not going to be helped by that much.

He'd be a good pick for the Jets if Rex was really salivating for him and he'd get the kind of work that's needed to make sure he develops. The Jets frontline culture isn't exactly the Steelers or the Ravens but everybody works hard and he'd have enough support to develop there. Put him on one of the really tight cultures though and he's got the potential to be an absolute monster.

If they were to draft Poe, and Ellis plays to potential they sure could start building that culture.

[Green Hurricane]

Poe is an overrated player that has never shown any ability to be above a mediocre player. Supreme physical talent means nothing without actual football talent. With Ellis's year on an NFL roster as an advantage, I'm not sure Poe could ever beat him out.

[BroadwayMike]

I compared him to D-Slob b/c both of them got over-drafted b/c of their combine numbers. The production is not there when you watch the game film.

[KurtTheJetsFan]

Originally Posted by Green Hurricane

Poe is an overrated player that has never shown any ability to be above a mediocre player. Supreme physical talent means nothing without actual football talent. With Ellis's year on an NFL roster as an advantage, I'm not sure Poe could ever beat him out.

Ellis is a great player in his own right, but they both do different things well.

Ellis is a Ted Washington type. He gets a great initial push, clogs up space & anchors. He isn't gonna give you much as a pass rusher but he is an absolute load in the middle on running downs.

Poe, on the other hand is more like Vince Wilfork or even Kris Jenkins. He has the size and wingspan to clog up the middle but can also get off blocks with initial quickness, long arms & by sinking his hips.He doesn't anchor as well as Ellis but is much more athletic.

After watching alot of tape on Poe...I would agree that there are concerns.He has an inconsistent motor, his technique is lousy & you'd like to see him make more plays. But he DID affect alot of plays just with his presence. He was constantly double teamed & still managed to get penetration & be disruptive in running as well as throwing lanes. All against mainly quick hitch spread offenses that were trying to scheme plays away from him.

He's a propect that needs some time in the weight room & on the practice field, no doubt. I'd also venture to guess that he'll struggle early in TC as well as the preseason. But once he learns to utilize his long arms to go along w/ his quickness & hips,he could be a pro bowl type player. Furthermore he has the frame to pack on alot of solid muscle..which means he's only gonna get stronger & more fit.My assessment is based solely on his film that I watched. I could care less what he ran in gym shorts or how much he benched.

[Br4dw4y5ux]

The devil's advocate argument against taking Poe or anybody else for the DL in the 1st round is that a 3-4 is made by its NT + linebackers. That's where you want the cap investment. You can get away with having a part-time NT/DE like Ngata but you really don't want to be paying 2 or 3 guys big bucks on that line and 1st rounders get big bucks on the 2nd contract if they work out really well.

Parcells went with the 3 grunts philosophy in his 3-4 and always had a NT who could push the pocket some but was not heavily compensated (Jim Burt and Jason Ferguson being the outstanding examples.)

The Steelers go with the NT + 4 LB's and 2 journeymen DE's. Ziggy Hood, who was taken in the 1st round 2 years ago actually played on the nose a fair amount for them in rotation last season. He seems small for the job but there's talk about having him moved to NT permanently when Casey Hampton goes. The Steelers shot down that talk last year but Tomlin is mildly encouraging on it when he talks this off-season. That Casey Hampton might start the season on the PUP list certainly has something to do with that.

The Ravens have Ngata and the LB's and they move Ngata around on the front a lot to exploit weak links.

[Green Hurricane]

Originally Posted by KurtTheJetsFan

Ellis is a great player in his own right, but they both do different things well.

Ellis is a Ted Washington type. He gets a great initial push, clogs up space & anchors. He isn't gonna give you much as a pass rusher but he is an absolute load in the middle on running downs.

Poe, on the other hand is more like Vince Wilfork or even Kris Jenkins. He has the size and wingspan to clog up the middle but can also get off blocks with initial quickness, long arms & by sinking his hips.He doesn't anchor as well as Ellis but is much more athletic.

After watching alot of tape on Poe...I would agree that there are concerns.He has an inconsistent motor, his technique is lousy & you'd like to see him make more plays. But he DID affect alot of plays just with his presence. He was constantly double teamed & still managed to get penetration & be disruptive in running as well as throwing lanes. All against mainly quick hitch spread offenses that were trying to scheme plays away from him.

He's a propect that needs some time in the weight room & on the practice field, no doubt. I'd also venture to guess that he'll struggle early in TC as well as the preseason. But once he learns to utilize his long arms to go along w/ his quickness & hips,he could be a pro bowl type player. Furthermore he has the frame to pack on alot of solid muscle..which means he's only gonna get stronger & more fit.My assessment is based solely on his film that I watched. I could care less what he ran in gym shorts or how much he benched.

What concerns me most about Poe is that he seems to be getting all of this attention as a NT prospect solely because he is a certain weight, not because he's shown any true 2 gap NT skills. I mean, if Fletcher Cox packed on 40 lbs he'd probably be a better athlete still than Poe, but I wouldn't say NT for him either. NTs need functional strength over everything else, and Poe doesn't have that. All the added weight room strength in the world doesn't guarantee a translation to the field without understanding how to use it. Haloti Ngata, probably the strongest on field player in football. Vince Wilfork, not much behind him.

With all of the "but he could"s about Poe I'm shocked that there are Jet fans so on board with him as the pick. I mean, we're talking about a Nose Tackle that was single blocked a decent amount of time in conference USA. I'm not sure that Wilfork/Ngata have required less than a double over the past three years.

As for Ellis, he's a pretty good athlete in his own right. There were a lot of Kris Jenkins comparisons last year around draft time, and he has more upside than as simply a run plugger. Also, if we're talking passrushing from the MT spot, 80% of that is going to be of the push the pocket variety, letting other guys make plays, anyway. Advantage to the stronger player.

For Poe to make good on anything but, honestly, a late 1 to 2nd round pick, we're talking about a massive jump in 1. Off the field work (a lot of useless weight on his body that needs to go), 2. Mindset on the field, and 3. Overall playing ability. That's a lot of issues to have with your first round pick.

[CervezaVerde]

Drafting Ellis last year, re-signing Pouha this year, then drafting Poe in the first round would be like...

Giving Sanchez an extension, signing Stanton, then trading for Tebow.

Oh crap. We could be in trouble.

[rickjet]

Originally Posted by KurtTheJetsFan

I think he'd be a great fit for the Jets. Jets can afford to bring him along slowly,playing him mainly in obvious passing & goalline situations. If we can't upgrade the outside pass rush...upgrade the front 3 pass rush.Poe can get a push inside at nose as a pass rusher. I also think he he can play some outside 5 technique given his quickness/long arms.

Wilkerson/Ellis/Poe is an awfully intriguing front 3 moving forward. All 3 are plus size, can anchor & are long. They all bring something different to the table but compliment eachother well.

Wilkerson- Quick, power & athletic with long arms to create seperation. Quintessential weak side 5 technique or 1 gap in a 4-3 look.

Ellis-Big,strong & Wide body. Takes up a ton of space & pushes back the lineof scrimmage.Can play Nose & the 5 technique.Big time anchor type

Poe- Massive build to go along w/ long arms, explosion & good hip flex. Can defend the run & drop his hips to rush the passer. Can play nose or 5 technique as well as 2 gap in a 4-3 look.

Poe is a BUST!!!! get real!!!