One way around the celibacy issue..

Cman55 · 05-28-2009, 03:16 PM

Taken from CNN.com today:

Quote:

(CNN) -- Father Alberto Cutie, an internationally known Catholic priest who admitted having a romantic affair and breaking his vow of celibacy, is joining the Episcopal Church to be with the woman he loves. The photos of the Cuban-American priest appeared on the cover of TV Notas magazine.

Cutie (pronounced koo-tee-AY) will pursue the priesthood in the Episcopal Church, the Episcopal Diocese of Southeast Florida said in a written statement.

It was not immediately clear how long the process would take. Cutie is sometimes called "Father Oprah" because of the advice he's given in Spanish-language media. He shocked the Catholic community when photographs of him embracing a bathing-suit-clad woman emerged this month. Cutie admitted having a two-year relationship with the woman.

I just don't understand the celibacy thing with the Catholic Church and Priests. I don't understand why women can't be Priests either. You'd think after all these years of declining enrollment in the priesthood, they would take another look at it. Oh well...I guess that's why I'm not a practicing Catholic anymore.

I wish that Priest well. I'm glad they did the phonetic spelling on his last name too.. Father Cutie???

GreenMachine · 05-28-2009, 03:18 PM

Ahh..My Episcopal Church. Catholic lite. All the rituals, half the guilt.

kbgreen · 05-28-2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cman50

Taken from CNN.com today:

I just don't understand the celibacy thing with the Catholic Church and Priests. I don't understand why women can't be Priests either. You'd think after all these years of declining enrollment in the priesthood, they would take another look at it. Oh well...I guess that's why I'm not a practicing Catholic anymore.

I wish that Priest well. I'm glad they did the phonetic spelling on his last name too.. Father Cutie???

I agree on both points, The celibacy thing was not started until well after the church was formed. So it was made up by some pope. I really don't think the real founding fathers would have gone for it being they were mostly married!

brothermoose · 05-28-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cman50

I just don't understand the celibacy thing with the Catholic Church and Priests.

Was just talking about this with someone yesterday. I believe it is a monk thing. The purpose of a priest is to have the highest form of open communication and contemplation before god. AKA if you're dealing with girl problems, then you can't be focused on your work.

I can see exactly why this makes sense. Women take up a lot of my thoughts. If I wasn't attracted to them, I would have a whole lot of other time to pray, meditate, and shepherd a flock.

Being a priest means a lifetime of dedication and sacrifice. I can see how it wouldn't be for most people, but those that choose it should abide by their vows. Those that can't should not join, or leave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cman50

I don't understand why women can't be Priests either. You'd think after all these years of declining enrollment in the priesthood, they would take another look at it.

It is a male dominated ascetic society plain and simple.

GreenMachine · 05-28-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brothermoose

Was just talking about this with someone yesterday. I believe it is a monk thing. The purpose of a priest is to have the highest form of open communication and contemplation before god. AKA if you're dealing with girl problems, then you can't be focused on your work.

I can see exactly why this makes sense. Women take up a lot of my thoughts. If I wasn't attracted to them, I would have a whole lot of other time to pray, meditate, and shepherd a flock.

Being a priest means a lifetime of dedication and sacrifice. I can see how it wouldn't be for most people, but those that choose it should abide by their vows. Those that can't should not join, or leave.

It is a male dominated ascetic society plain and simple.

It has nothing to do with being focused. It is because the Church is greedy and does not want any wife or kids to get in the way of wealth or property.

brothermoose · 05-28-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

It has nothing to do with being focused. It is because the Church is greedy and does not want any wife or kids to get in the way of wealth or property.

It did for the old monks. I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be the same for the priesthood.

I think the maintenance of power thing is also a factor, but not the only one.

OhioJetsFan · 05-28-2009, 04:46 PM

Meh. The orthodox church has been on the right side of the issue since AD 1054.

cassie96 · 05-28-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cman50

Taken from CNN.com today:

I just don't understand the celibacy thing with the Catholic Church and Priests. I don't understand why women can't be Priests either. You'd think after all these years of declining enrollment in the priesthood, they would take another look at it. Oh well...I guess that's why I'm not a practicing Catholic anymore.

I wish that Priest well. I'm glad they did the phonetic spelling on his last name too.. Father Cutie???

Good for Father Cutie!!!! At least he did not just leave like all of the other Catholic priests that marry. It is their gain & a loss to the Catholic church, in that, I have read that he is a great guy.

I still believe that ONE of the reasons that Catholic priests do not marry is the fact that such a large % of them are gay. (according to author Father Andrew Greeley) It would put too much pressure on all of the gay priests, unless they start to allow gay marriages.

cassie96 · 05-28-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

Ahh..My Episcopal Church. Catholic lite. All the rituals, half the guilt.

Not too sure about that. When I am with my Jewish/Presbyterian/Episcipal/Luthern buddies everyone agrees that ALL religions raise their kids on guilt.

typeOnegative13NY · 05-28-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

Ahh..My Episcopal Church. Catholic lite. All the rituals, half the guilt.

Sounds like us Presbyterians.

nyscene911 · 05-28-2009, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

It has nothing to do with being focused. It is because the Church is greedy and does not want any wife or kids to get in the way of wealth or property.

Well that may have been the case in the distant past, but not today. The reasoning I was given, by a priest, for not being married today is that part of being a priest is being a servant to the people of the parish--you're ultimate responsibility lies with helping those people. Similarly, if you are married, your ultimate responsibility lies with taking care of you family. And that's where the problem lies. You can't wear both hats at once.

Br4dw4y5ux · 05-28-2009, 10:24 PM

The celibacy policy of the Catholic Church is there for one reason: Roman succession struggles. The Catholic Church overlaid the existing Roman governmental system almost perfectly as it was formed. For the Emperor you had the Pope, just as absolute a ruler over his domain. For Governors you had Bishops, also entrusted with a wide area to oversee. For Procurators, or local governmental officials, you had Curates who were entrusted with the souls of a local parish. There are many other similar arrangements that mirrored as the Catholic Church's influence and power grew. Basically for every Roman office of authority the Church created an office that shadowed it in authority.

The early Christians were very smart though about not mirroring the flaws they saw in Roman society. They were very aware that the origin of their power was in opposing the Roman slavery system and so they carefully worked against slavery wherever they saw it, gradually removing the power of the nobility and large landowners to control large blocs of people and taking that power onto the church as they redeemed slaves.

They also realized that the thing that caused the most convulsions in the Roman system were the succession struggles that happened almost like clockwork when an Emperor died and his potential successors began fighting amongst themselves for the spoils. They saw this occur in the noble families also, with families often torn apart by competing claims made by different factions within the family. They saw brothers assassinate brothers and wives kill husbands, all to try to insure that a favored person assumed the titles and possessions of the slain individual.

The primacy of the church as a whole in making succession decisions was absolutely necessary for it to become an enduring institution in Roman society. With celibacy the church was able to remove blood claims to any position that might become vacant. They were able to prevent succession planning and infighting related to a likely vacancy in the near future. It was a win-win organizationally, both for the church and for the people who held the positions who were largely insulated from the deadly intrigues that plagued Roman succession politics.

Obviously it worked because 2,000 years later you still have a Catholic Church, whereas the Roman Empire bit the dust 556 years ago and more than 1500 years ago in the west.

jgangstahippie7:18 · 05-28-2009, 10:31 PM

Wasn't the first Pope married?

Miamipuck · 05-28-2009, 10:41 PM

The absolute best way around celibacy is to fuck.

Br4dw4y5ux · 05-28-2009, 10:49 PM

It's tricky to figure out exactly what the list of Popes looks like because some of the early Popes did not have the title, since the church was still outlawed in Roman society for a significant period of time after it began to form.

Saint Peter is now considered the first Pope although it is likely that he had no such title in the time in which he lived. He brought his wive(s) with him from the east when he arrived in Rome and he was martyred by Nero in 67 AD. Most early Popes were killed by the Romans eventually.

The Catholic Church only began to really establish itself in the third century AD and the church structure only began to firm up after the edict ending the persecution of Christians in 313 AD by Constantine. Before that time the church was essentially an open revolutionary movement more than what we have come to know now as the Catholic Church.

NDmick · 05-29-2009, 05:51 AM

I used to go to an episcopal church.

the priest was married, three kids, and was a grandfather before he died.

that's how it should be done.

plinko · 05-29-2009, 05:57 AM

Before opening this thread I was expecting a story about molesting children.

Good for the dude. He gets to still love God, teach his sermon and have a wife and kids.

Cman55 · 05-29-2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plinko

Before opening this thread I was expecting a story about molesting children.

Good for the dude. He gets to still love God, teach his sermon and have a wife and kids.

Definetly a win-win for the Priest..

05-28-2009, 03:18 PM	#2
GreenMachine KCCO Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 12,533 vCash: 25	Ahh..My Episcopal Church. Catholic lite. All the rituals, half the guilt. __________________ http://www.staged.com/learn/greenmachine

05-28-2009, 04:46 PM	#7
OhioJetsFan TheGangGreen.com Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bleh Posts: 614 vCash: 1100	Meh. The orthodox church has been on the right side of the issue since AD 1054. __________________ . . That an anonymous person... day in and day out can say whatever he wants to say, what he perhaps would never have the courage to say face-to-face as an individual to another individual... is nothing less than a crime — and no one has responsibility! What untruth! — Soren Kierkegaard

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05-28-2009, 10:24 PM	#12
Br4dw4y5ux 2009 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 19,592 vCash: 2000	The celibacy policy of the Catholic Church is there for one reason: Roman succession struggles. The Catholic Church overlaid the existing Roman governmental system almost perfectly as it was formed. For the Emperor you had the Pope, just as absolute a ruler over his domain. For Governors you had Bishops, also entrusted with a wide area to oversee. For Procurators, or local governmental officials, you had Curates who were entrusted with the souls of a local parish. There are many other similar arrangements that mirrored as the Catholic Church's influence and power grew. Basically for every Roman office of authority the Church created an office that shadowed it in authority. The early Christians were very smart though about not mirroring the flaws they saw in Roman society. They were very aware that the origin of their power was in opposing the Roman slavery system and so they carefully worked against slavery wherever they saw it, gradually removing the power of the nobility and large landowners to control large blocs of people and taking that power onto the church as they redeemed slaves. They also realized that the thing that caused the most convulsions in the Roman system were the succession struggles that happened almost like clockwork when an Emperor died and his potential successors began fighting amongst themselves for the spoils. They saw this occur in the noble families also, with families often torn apart by competing claims made by different factions within the family. They saw brothers assassinate brothers and wives kill husbands, all to try to insure that a favored person assumed the titles and possessions of the slain individual. The primacy of the church as a whole in making succession decisions was absolutely necessary for it to become an enduring institution in Roman society. With celibacy the church was able to remove blood claims to any position that might become vacant. They were able to prevent succession planning and infighting related to a likely vacancy in the near future. It was a win-win organizationally, both for the church and for the people who held the positions who were largely insulated from the deadly intrigues that plagued Roman succession politics. Obviously it worked because 2,000 years later you still have a Catholic Church, whereas the Roman Empire bit the dust 556 years ago and more than 1500 years ago in the west.

05-28-2009, 10:49 PM	#15
Br4dw4y5ux 2009 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 19,592 vCash: 2000	It's tricky to figure out exactly what the list of Popes looks like because some of the early Popes did not have the title, since the church was still outlawed in Roman society for a significant period of time after it began to form. Saint Peter is now considered the first Pope although it is likely that he had no such title in the time in which he lived. He brought his wive(s) with him from the east when he arrived in Rome and he was martyred by Nero in 67 AD. Most early Popes were killed by the Romans eventually. The Catholic Church only began to really establish itself in the third century AD and the church structure only began to firm up after the edict ending the persecution of Christians in 313 AD by Constantine. Before that time the church was essentially an open revolutionary movement more than what we have come to know now as the Catholic Church.

05-29-2009, 05:57 AM	#17
plinko Absolute Ruler Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Fuhgeddaboudit Posts: 6,595 vCash: 833	Before opening this thread I was expecting a story about molesting children. Good for the dude. He gets to still love God, teach his sermon and have a wife and kids.