[CatoTheElder]

Remember after the bye week last year when we started seeing the defense walking around before the snap, defensive lineman lining up at every defensive position other than their true one, the linebackers shifting around behind the line, sometimes onto it...etc? Am I the only one who remembers the creep? Where the hell is this now? Ellis and Hobson were credited as the authors of that playbook, did Hobson take the rights with him when he left the team?

I fail to see the logic in "we have better players so we don't have to resort to this." This technique - if I remember correctly, thought up by Ellis and Hobson - helped turn last year's dismal pass rush into Ben Roethlisberger's worst nightmare. Think about how much better this technique could be with actual pass rushers: Calvin Pace, Bryan Thomas when he's actually trying...VERNON GHOLSTON! We know he has a hell of a bull rush and not much else but think about how much better that bull rush could be if the o-line doesn't know from where it's comming. Also, if it messes up the pass protection you have to believe that it's going to play Hell with the run blocking schemes. Should we ever be in a situation where the closest thing to a true NT in the last three years happens to go down and suddenly our run-D looks exactly like it did last year, that might be helpful.

Personally I see this lack of creativity, or willingness to be creative anyway, as disturbing. Mangini's first year we saw a lot of Brad Smith running the ball on an end-around and, gasp, gainning yards. Draws and passes to Leon Washington. Things that made our offense unpredictable if worked in with an actual game plan. Now, as the talent level seems to rise we see fewer and fewer creative and, frankly, fun plays being called.

The only things that I can think of to account for it are: 1) We improved the talent level so we can just play plain old football - Bullsh*t! 2) Brett Favre isn't comfortable with the offense - apparently three weeks of trainning camp isn't enough time to digest an NFL playbook. or 3) Mangini/Sutton/Schottenheimer are just getting too scared to try something new.

I can understand if Mangini would be squeemish on the offensive side of the ball because it's going to take Favre some time before he actualy knows all of the playbook(I'd say around week 12), but there's no excuse for the defense. All of the FAs and traded players have been there since the start of the preseason, plenty of time to at least try and put in a few of those packages that worked from time to time last year. I know you can't just throw a whole new scheme in at halftime when you haven't practiced all year, but why would the CS allow a potential weapon to fall to the wayside like that? Pathetic.

[WhiteShoeWillis]

I saw denver do it once - they got toasted.

[FriendlyGiantsFan]

Excellent question! I wish I had more to contribute, but I don't.

[CatoTheElder]

Originally Posted by Broadway Brett

I saw denver do it once - they got toasted.

And how many times have they been toasted when they weren't doing it?

[WhiteShoeWillis]

Originally Posted by CKNY6

And how many times have they been toasted when they weren't doing it?

Couldn't tell ya, but there defense hasn't been anything to write home about.

[vilmatic]

I thought this was going to be a thread about a bag o' schwag.

[FriendlyGiantsFan]

Originally Posted by Broadway Brett

Couldn't tell ya, but there defense hasn't been anything to write home about.

Denver doesn't have the pass-rushers the Jets do. They were tired for 3rd in the league in sacks. Rivers was not getting pressured at all and when he can step into his throws his pop-gun arm is enough to get the job done. The rush wasn't getting to him and "the creep" style of rushing could have changed that. Even if you force Rivers to run it reduces his arm strength a lot and could lead to interception opportunities.

And the point about Gholston is key, if he wants to run straight to the QB and push whatever is in his way then it only follows that you should make the oline unaware as to where that starting point will be so you can hope for favorable matchups and not Gholston trying to bullrush a guard with 50+ pounds on him.

[WhiteShoeWillis]

Originally Posted by FriendlyGiantsFan

Denver doesn't have the pass-rushers the Jets do. They were tired for 3rd in the league in sacks. Rivers was not getting pressured at all and when he can step into his throws his pop-gun arm is enough to get the job done. The rush wasn't getting to him and "the creep" style of rushing could have changed that. Even if you force Rivers to run it reduces his arm strength a lot and could lead to interception opportunities.

And the point about Gholston is key, if he wants to run straight to the QB and push whatever is in his way then it only follows that you should make the oline unaware as to where that starting point will be so you can hope for favorable matchups and not Gholston trying to bullrush a guard with 50+ pounds on him.

Good points. I think they absolutely need to be more creative when the other team keeps picking up your blitzes. If Jenkins is out for any games they will absolutely have to be creative.

I'm not necessarily trying to knock the creep defense. I just wanted to mention that I saw Denver run it once unsuccessfully. I'm sure D-rob got them to try it.

[FriendlyGiantsFan]

Originally Posted by Broadway Brett

Good points. I think they absolutely need to be more creative when the other team keeps picking up your blitzes. If Jenkins is out for any games they will absolutely have to be creative.

I'm not necessarily trying to knock the creep defense. I just wanted to mention that I saw Denver run it once unsuccessfully. I'm sure D-rob got them to try it.

Now worries, sorry if that came off as more ad-hominem than I intended it to be. And if Jenkins is out there are going to be problems. A fat-assed NT clogging up the middle is the cornerstone to the 3-4.