How does Mario fit in our 3-4?

SettlerDawg · 03-20-2006, 01:54 AM

If there are no trades in the top 4, the Texans will probably take Bush, NO will take Ferguson, and Tenn. will take Leinart. That leaves us with Mario Williams who is a borderline elite player coming into the league. However, he won't be able to produce, like he is able to, if he plays as a 3-4 end (at least from my understanding). Also, we recently signed Von Olhoffen(sp?) to play as a 3-4de. Does Mario split time with Von Olhoffen is we take him? How do we utilize Mario if we take him? Do we stay in a 3-4?

King Koopa · 03-20-2006, 02:42 AM

olb pass rusher( see joey porter, shawn merriman, etc.)...that's the only way we take him...if our FO/CS feels he could be a potentially dominating olb in the 3-4

kevin68 · 03-20-2006, 07:25 AM

Von Ohlhoffen could switch to NT, or like NYJets83 said the Jets use Williams as the OLB. Another possibility is when we switch to 4-3 for a few plays, Williams could be the DE. But I think Willimas can be productive as a 3-4 DE, because of his size and athletic abilities.
BTW: I heard Mangini say that the Jets qwill play the formation which he thinks gives them the best chance to win. I never heard him say that 3-4- will be the usual defense. Am I wrong with that?

FITM · 03-20-2006, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin68

Von Ohlhoffen could switch to NT, or like NYJets83 said the Jets use Williams as the OLB. Another possibility is when we switch to 4-3 for a few plays, Williams could be the DE. But I think Willimas can be productive as a 3-4 DE, because of his size and athletic abilities.
BTW: I heard Mangini say that the Jets qwill play the formation which he thinks gives them the best chance to win. I never heard him say that 3-4- will be the usual defense. Am I wrong with that?

If we use Williams at 3-4 end it would be dumb to bench D-Rob for that amount of time with the money he's getting.

kevin68 · 03-20-2006, 07:57 AM

But if the Jets draft Williams, what should they do? in a 4-3 Von Olhoffen could play DT beside of D-Rob, and they won't draft Williams to bench him either.
What is your opinion on this topic FITM?

Green Hurricane · 03-20-2006, 08:21 AM

If the Jets take Mario, absolutely they should stay in a 34. Switching to a 43 would severely limit three of our better young players, Vilma, Drob, and Mario (if we pick him). Williams has the size and ability to be a very good 34 End, which is no doubt where he'd play, but he's a phenom of a 43 end, I'd hate to waste that.

MParty7441 · 03-20-2006, 08:30 AM

Vonny will play NT. Also Super Mario is 6-7 260 something. He is a monster and is strong and fast. He and Vernon Davis are the two best prospects IMO.

FITM · 03-20-2006, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin68

But if the Jets draft Williams, what should they do? in a 4-3 Von Olhoffen could play DT beside of D-Rob, and they won't draft Williams to bench him either.
What is your opinion on this topic FITM?

Well, if we switch to 3-4, Vilma will be less effective which I hate, but a 3-4 is better for this team. If 3-4 is the case, we move Vonny to NT, D-Rob to RE and draft Williams for OLB because in this case we don't really have anyone else to be an effective OLB in a 3-4. Who knows though, maybe D-Rob will finally settle in playing at the end rather than inside. I was never for drafting D-Rob anyway.

Green Hurricane · 03-20-2006, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MParty7441

Vonny will play NT. Also Super Mario is 6-7 260 something. He is a monster and is strong and fast. He and Vernon Davis are the two best prospects IMO.

Mario's 295 pounds. He's a big ole boy.

Rambo13 · 03-20-2006, 10:00 AM

The only way we should take Mario is if he is going to play OLB because 3-4 ends just aren't that important. In a 3-4 end you are looking more for a space occupier than a pass rusher. That is something you can get later in the draft. Pass rushers are where the money's at, and if Mario Williams can't rush from OLB and cover a TE or receiver we should go with someone else like Vernon Davis.

mangini4life · 03-20-2006, 11:35 AM

Rambo,

You really think Richard Seymour hasn't been important to the Patriots? I've heard people say Mario is a combo of Seymour and Peppers. Not quite as quick as Peppers, and not quite as strong as Seymour, but stronger than Peppers and faster than Seymour.

Mario Williams is a STUD DL prospect, and will be a tremendous addition to whichever team selects him. I actaully like his versatility; him being able to play DE in a 3-4 and 4-3 makes him even more valuable, like Shaun Ellis.

As for a 6'7" 295 lb person playing LB, I cannot imagine any team lining him up as an OLB unless it is for less than 5% of plays; I just don't think he has the cover skills.

Rambo13 · 03-20-2006, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mangini4life

Rambo,

You really think Richard Seymour hasn't been important to the Patriots? I've heard people say Mario is a combo of Seymour and Peppers. Not quite as quick as Peppers, and not quite as strong as Seymour, but stronger than Peppers and faster than Seymour.

Mario Williams is a STUD DL prospect, and will be a tremendous addition to whichever team selects him. I actaully like his versatility; him being able to play DE in a 3-4 and 4-3 makes him even more valuable, like Shaun Ellis.

As for a 6'7" 295 lb person playing LB, I cannot imagine any team lining him up as an OLB unless it is for less than 5% of plays; I just don't think he has the cover skills.

I think Seymour is very important, but here is where my point comes in. Seymour, and most 3-4 DEs were converted Defensive Tackles. Seymour is also one of the few successful 1st round 3-4 ends. We have Kimo and Ellis at end. We don't have a pressing need for another one. In my opinion it would be a waste of Mario's talent to stick him on a 3-4 line.

Johnny4 · 03-20-2006, 12:20 PM

One of the best things about Belicheck's D is that they can switch from 4-3 to 3-4. Kimo is 37 years old, he is a one year stop gap player.Two years tops. He would be a great guy to help Mario learn the position in the NFL. There are very few 4 down lineman in the NfL, players are constantly rotated. It would be the perfect way to break the kid in without putting too much pressure on him.

1028 · 03-20-2006, 12:39 PM

A 300 pound LB?

Im not saying its impossible, but its a funny thought

1028 · 03-20-2006, 12:41 PM

Wow this is weird, how was my above post edited by MSUJet?!1 Not just that, but a year and an hour before I posted it??

BIG COUNTRY · 03-20-2006, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1028

Wow this is weird, how was my above post edited by MSUJet?!1 Not just that, but a year and an hour before I posted it??

Very strange, can that be explained?

Anyways I think Mario would be an OLB rushing linebacker like Merriman. He could still play end though as he is a big fella, also i think Vilma will be effective in the 3-4 as it gives linebackers more room to operate, that helps Vilma out, I think he is big enough to take the load.

vilmaisabeast · 03-20-2006, 04:22 PM

[QUOTE=Johnny4 Kimo is 37 years old,
Kimos 35

vilmaisabeast · 03-20-2006, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny4

Kimo is 37 years old

Kimo isnt 37 he is 35

Jonathan_Vilma · 03-20-2006, 04:26 PM

Williams would be an absolute waste as a 3-4 end for the simple fact that he would dominate so much more in a 4-3. Unless he's a linebacker I really don't see why you'd waste money on him to play end. He's a speedster in a big guys body. He doesn't bullrush and despite his bench reps I really don't think he has the lower body strength to put up with a big tackle and runningback and/or guard on every given play.

3-4 ends need to be big guys based around strength. Williams just happens to be huge yet uses his speed to navigate.

PinPointPenning10 · 03-20-2006, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Hurricane

If the Jets take Mario, absolutely they should stay in a 34. Switching to a 43 would severely limit three of our better young players, Vilma, Drob, and Mario (if we pick him). Williams has the size and ability to be a very good 34 End, which is no doubt where he'd play, but he's a phenom of a 43 end, I'd hate to waste that.

Don't you mean that the other way around. We stay in a 4-3, because switching to a 3-4 would limit Vilma, D-Rob, and Mario.

If we draft Mario, I would stay in a 4-3 and have our front 7 be

DE: Ellis, Mario
DT: D-Rob, Kimo
OLB: Hobson, Barton
MLB: Vilma

If we're going to a 3-4 and want to draft a defensive player, then I'd take Hawk. So we'd have

DE: Ellis, Kimo
DT: D-Rob (Kimo will help him out at NT)
OLB: Hawk, Barton
MLB: Vilma, Hobson

The first option is much better, as Vilma would be much better in a 4-3 and D-Rob isn't good enough to play NT.

03-20-2006, 01:54 AM	#1
SettlerDawg Totally Addicted Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,713 vCash: 3495	How does Mario fit in our 3-4? If there are no trades in the top 4, the Texans will probably take Bush, NO will take Ferguson, and Tenn. will take Leinart. That leaves us with Mario Williams who is a borderline elite player coming into the league. However, he won't be able to produce, like he is able to, if he plays as a 3-4 end (at least from my understanding). Also, we recently signed Von Olhoffen(sp?) to play as a 3-4de. Does Mario split time with Von Olhoffen is we take him? How do we utilize Mario if we take him? Do we stay in a 3-4? __________________ Say "No!" to Jarvis Jones at 9 Undersized, unathletic, and bad in run support Even if he somehow pans out, he's out of the league in 5-7 years due to his condition

03-20-2006, 08:21 AM	#6
Green Hurricane Footsteps Falco Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 7,714 vCash: 125	If the Jets take Mario, absolutely they should stay in a 34. Switching to a 43 would severely limit three of our better young players, Vilma, Drob, and Mario (if we pick him). Williams has the size and ability to be a very good 34 End, which is no doubt where he'd play, but he's a phenom of a 43 end, I'd hate to waste that. __________________ blah

03-20-2006, 10:00 AM	#10
Rambo13 Totally Addicted Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,305 vCash: 25	The only way we should take Mario is if he is going to play OLB because 3-4 ends just aren't that important. In a 3-4 end you are looking more for a space occupier than a pass rusher. That is something you can get later in the draft. Pass rushers are where the money's at, and if Mario Williams can't rush from OLB and cover a TE or receiver we should go with someone else like Vernon Davis. __________________

03-20-2006, 11:35 AM	#11
mangini4life Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 132 vCash: 2000	Rambo, You really think Richard Seymour hasn't been important to the Patriots? I've heard people say Mario is a combo of Seymour and Peppers. Not quite as quick as Peppers, and not quite as strong as Seymour, but stronger than Peppers and faster than Seymour. Mario Williams is a STUD DL prospect, and will be a tremendous addition to whichever team selects him. I actaully like his versatility; him being able to play DE in a 3-4 and 4-3 makes him even more valuable, like Shaun Ellis. As for a 6'7" 295 lb person playing LB, I cannot imagine any team lining him up as an OLB unless it is for less than 5% of plays; I just don't think he has the cover skills. Last edited by mangini4life; 03-20-2006 at 11:40 AM.

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03-20-2006, 02:42 AM	#2
King Koopa Totally Addicted Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,959 vCash: 25	olb pass rusher( see joey porter, shawn merriman, etc.)...that's the only way we take him...if our FO/CS feels he could be a potentially dominating olb in the 3-4

03-20-2006, 07:25 AM	#3
kevin68 TheGangGreen.com Regular Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wuerzburg Posts: 408 vCash: 3614	Von Ohlhoffen could switch to NT, or like NYJets83 said the Jets use Williams as the OLB. Another possibility is when we switch to 4-3 for a few plays, Williams could be the DE. But I think Willimas can be productive as a 3-4 DE, because of his size and athletic abilities. BTW: I heard Mangini say that the Jets qwill play the formation which he thinks gives them the best chance to win. I never heard him say that 3-4- will be the usual defense. Am I wrong with that?

03-20-2006, 07:57 AM	#5
kevin68 TheGangGreen.com Regular Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wuerzburg Posts: 408 vCash: 3614	But if the Jets draft Williams, what should they do? in a 4-3 Von Olhoffen could play DT beside of D-Rob, and they won't draft Williams to bench him either. What is your opinion on this topic FITM?

03-20-2006, 08:30 AM	#7
MParty7441 Totally Addicted Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: East Lansing, MI Posts: 5,899 vCash: 50	Vonny will play NT. Also Super Mario is 6-7 260 something. He is a monster and is strong and fast. He and Vernon Davis are the two best prospects IMO.

03-20-2006, 12:20 PM	#13
Johnny4 Totally Addicted Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,164 vCash: 2100	One of the best things about Belicheck's D is that they can switch from 4-3 to 3-4. Kimo is 37 years old, he is a one year stop gap player.Two years tops. He would be a great guy to help Mario learn the position in the NFL. There are very few 4 down lineman in the NfL, players are constantly rotated. It would be the perfect way to break the kid in without putting too much pressure on him.

03-20-2006, 04:22 PM	#17
vilmaisabeast Starter Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 124 vCash: 2000	[QUOTE=Johnny4 Kimo is 37 years old, Kimos 35

03-20-2006, 04:26 PM	#19
Jonathan_Vilma Totally Addicted Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York Posts: 7,818 vCash: 1100	Williams would be an absolute waste as a 3-4 end for the simple fact that he would dominate so much more in a 4-3. Unless he's a linebacker I really don't see why you'd waste money on him to play end. He's a speedster in a big guys body. He doesn't bullrush and despite his bench reps I really don't think he has the lower body strength to put up with a big tackle and runningback and/or guard on every given play. 3-4 ends need to be big guys based around strength. Williams just happens to be huge yet uses his speed to navigate.