[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by Murrell2878

A good God. Back to the excuses comment? The throw to Decker was right on the money. He NEEDS to make that catch. He let it bounce off his hands. The Fumble was a TUCK. I don't care what happened on some previous play. The fact is Manning led an 88 yard drive to take the lead only to watch the D let a 70 yard pass go over their head w/ :31 secs left. Brady led his 'O' to ZERO 2nd HALF POINTS yesterday!

he had a DB on his back to break it up, it was a great throw if no defender was near him but unfortunately for peyton he made another poor decision.

The fumble may or may not have ben a tuck, he was losing it before he tucled it but again either way he got away w/ a fumble earlier.

You are being misleading, you are making it like he led the TD drive and gave the ball back to bal w/ 31 secs left. That's being very misleading, there was 7 mins left and Bal had plenty of time to come back. peyton needed ONE 1st down to end it, he couldn't do it, he then had TWO chances in OT. He FAILED like he always does in postseason.

zero in the 2nd half is better than zero for a game, right?

[Murrell2878]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

he had a DB on his back to break it up, it was a great throw if no defender was near him but unfortunately for peyton he made another poor decision.

The fumble may or may not have ben a tuck, he was losing it before he tucled it but again either way he got away w/ a fumble earlier.

You are being misleading, you are making it like he led the TD drive and gave the ball back to bal w/ 31 secs left. That's being very misleading, there was 7 mins left and Bal had plenty of time to come back. peyton needed ONE 1st down to end it, he couldn't do it, he then had TWO chances in OT. He FAILED like he always does in postseason.

zero in the 2nd half is better than zero for a game, right?

You have to make tight throws. Not everyone is wide open on every play. He made the right read, and he made a good throw. Decker needs to make the catch. The fumble WAS a tuck. It was THE definition of tuck. I don't care what happened earlier in the game.

I am not being misleading. Manning drove them 88 yards to take the lead. The Defense gave it up w/ :31 secs left on a ridiculous bomb. What's misleading about that?

Manning led the Broncos to 3 TD drives of 74, 86 and 88 yards all ending in a TD pass. The 88 yard drive gave them the lead that should have been held. Brady led the Patriots to 13 points in the entire game, messed up the final drive of the first half, and led the O to ZERO points in the 2nd half.

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by Murrell2878

You have to make tight throws. Not everyone is wide open on every play. He made the right read, and he made a good throw. Decker needs to make the catch. The fumble WAS a tuck. It was THE definition of tuck. I don't care what happened earlier in the game.

I am not being misleading. Manning drove them 88 yards to take the lead. The Defense gave it up w/ :31 secs left on a ridiculous bomb. What's misleading about that?

Manning led the Broncos to 3 TD drives of 74, 86 and 88 yards all ending in a TD pass. The 88 yard drive gave them the lead that should have been held. Brady led the Patriots to 13 points in the entire game, messed up the final drive of the first half, and led the O to ZERO points in the 2nd half.

I understand that but he had a DB on his back and the DB made a great play, I don't know how you can blame the WR in that spot.

You are making it look like he led a late TD drive and gave the ball back to Bal w/ 31 secs left. Bal got it w/ over a minute left and he gave them a chance- a small chance but still a chance and they capitalized.

different games, Manning also gave away an INT for a TD and had 3 TOs lead directly to 17 pts. None of Brady's INts led to pts and he wasn't handed 14 pts.

[Murrell2878]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

I understand that but he had a DB on his back and the DB made a great play, I don't know how you can blame the WR in that spot.

You are making it look like he led a late TD drive and gave the ball back to Bal w/ 31 secs left. Bal got it w/ over a minute left and he gave them a chance- a small chance but still a chance and they capitalized.

different games, Manning also gave away an INT for a TD and had 3 TOs lead directly to 17 pts. None of Brady's INts led to pts and he wasn't handed 14 pts.

Ok. So if you feel the DB made a great play, then why are you blaming Manning? Actually, the pass was on the money and Decker needs to catch the ball.

Did Manning lead an 88 yard drive for the go ahead TD? Yes

Did the defense give up a ridiculous 70 yard TD w/ :31 secs left? Yes

Manning threw a pass that SHOULD have been caught by Decker who let it bounce off his hands for a pick-6. The fumble was a TUCK. And even after all of that, he gave them a lead that the D blew.

[displacedfan]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

By the way, we know Brady has struggled in postseason since winning his last SB but he still has a better win % than Manning removing the first 9 wins.

Manning: 9-11 in postseason
Brady since 2005: 8-7

Again Junc, please explain why W/L is QB stat?

Your list is Indianapolis Colts + Denver Broncos with Peyton Manning as QB 9-11 in the postseason. New England Patriots in the playoffs since 2005: 8-7. I can't take W/L seriously as a QB stat when a 4/10 game from QB gets him a win and a QB playing less than a half and scoring 0 points gets a win (Brady's first AFC championship game)

Originally Posted by nyjunc

who cares? if it's so easy to lead late game tying/winning FG drives why couldn't peyton do it at home last week?

You do know Peyton had Vinatieri as long as Brady, right? how come if it was all AV Peyton didn't magically become clutch in postseason?

you do know Peyton only has one late game TD to win a playoff game, right?


failures in late close games to cost team tie/win in postseason:

Brady: zero
Manning: SEVEN

It is actually easy to lead late game winning/tying field goals. The hard part is making it. Chad Pennignton did it, didn't get the kick. Peyton did it against MIA, NYJ, and PITT and didn't get the tie or win in either one. In those 3 games I listed, his last play was setting up the kick and he never got the ball back. You of all people as a Jets fan should know how to separate QB play from ST play. We went through Doug Brien and Nate Kaeding is 0-5 against in the playoffs. Kicker are an important part of ST. I mean the CAR kicker kicked it OOB in that SB leaving Brady a short field to set AV up for. ST and Defense are very important in the postseason, you fail to grasp this fact time and time again. I honestly think you think the NFL is like a game of Madden with both QBs controlling their defense and special teams.

You know Tom Brady only has 0 late game TDs to win a postseason game right? So yes I know Peyton Manning has 1 as it's one more than Tom Brady

So if we take away 3 Brady failures because didn't have enough time while QBs like Mark Sanchez, Matt Ryan, and Joe Flacco found it to be enough time to lead comebacks like that and we take away the 2 double digit home playoffs losses where Brady had 6 or 7 total turnovers Tom Brady has 0 playoff failures.

Throwing out relevant things make arguing so much easier. I wish it actually made sense. Let's throw out Eli Manning's stats after year 3 and SAnchez's stats after year 3, man Sanchez is such a better QB. Let's just throw out the fact that the Patriots have 3 titles, the Jets have been a much better franchise in the 2000s. Let's throw out the Heat, Thunder, Spurs, and Clippers, man the Knicks are the best team in the NBA. Let's throw out KD, Lebron, and Paul, man Melo is now the MVP of the season easily.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

The only one of those where Brady had a chance to run out the clock was NYG last year and his WR dropped a crucial 3rd down pass.

Junc, you wrote this in post #35 "I don't want to hear about drops and all that, all QBs have drops." Bahaha you get caught up in your double standards that arguments you use against Peyton Manning you don't use against Tom Brady. Peyton Manning has a higher standard in your head. The only reason this makes sense is if you think Peyton is better so you hold him higher. So by clear logical thinking, more logical than most your arguments, you think Peyton Manning is a better QB than Tom Brady. I'm not even arguing that but thanks for letting me know

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by Murrell2878

Ok. So if you feel the DB made a great play, then why are you blaming Manning? Actually, the pass was on the money and Decker needs to catch the ball.

Did Manning lead an 88 yard drive for the go ahead TD? Yes

Did the defense give up a ridiculous 70 yard TD w/ :31 secs left? Yes

Manning threw a pass that SHOULD have been caught by Decker who let it bounce off his hands for a pick-6. The fumble was a TUCK. And even after all of that, he gave them a lead that the D blew.

He threw the INT for the TD, right? he gets blame.

Did manning get TWO TDs? Yes.

Did Manning give 7 back on an INT? yes.

Did manning Tos lead directly to 17 points? Yes.

Originally Posted by displacedfan

Again Junc, please explain why W/L is QB stat?

Your list is Indianapolis Colts + Denver Broncos with Peyton Manning as QB 9-11 in the postseason. New England Patriots in the playoffs since 2005: 8-7. I can't take W/L seriously as a QB stat when a 4/10 game from QB gets him a win and a QB playing less than a half and scoring 0 points gets a win (Brady's first AFC championship game)



It is actually easy to lead late game winning/tying field goals. The hard part is making it. Chad Pennignton did it, didn't get the kick. Peyton did it against MIA, NYJ, and PITT and didn't get the tie or win in either one. In those 3 games I listed, his last play was setting up the kick and he never got the ball back. You of all people as a Jets fan should know how to separate QB play from ST play. We went through Doug Brien and Nate Kaeding is 0-5 against in the playoffs. Kicker are an important part of ST. I mean the CAR kicker kicked it OOB in that SB leaving Brady a short field to set AV up for. ST and Defense are very important in the postseason, you fail to grasp this fact time and time again. I honestly think you think the NFL is like a game of Madden with both QBs controlling their defense and special teams.

You know Tom Brady only has 0 late game TDs to win a postseason game right? So yes I know Peyton Manning has 1 as it's one more than Tom Brady

So if we take away 3 Brady failures because didn't have enough time while QBs like Mark Sanchez, Matt Ryan, and Joe Flacco found it to be enough time to lead comebacks like that and we take away the 2 double digit home playoffs losses where Brady had 6 or 7 total turnovers Tom Brady has 0 playoff failures.

Throwing out relevant things make arguing so much easier. I wish it actually made sense. Let's throw out Eli Manning's stats after year 3 and SAnchez's stats after year 3, man Sanchez is such a better QB. Let's just throw out the fact that the Patriots have 3 titles, the Jets have been a much better franchise in the 2000s. Let's throw out the Heat, Thunder, Spurs, and Clippers, man the Knicks are the best team in the NBA. Let's throw out KD, Lebron, and Paul, man Melo is now the MVP of the season easily.



Junc, you wrote this in post #35 "I don't want to hear about drops and all that, all QBs have drops." Bahaha you get caught up in your double standards that arguments you use against Peyton Manning you don't use against Tom Brady. Peyton Manning has a higher standard in your head. The only reason this makes sense is if you think Peyton is better so you hold him higher. So by clear logical thinking, more logical than most your arguments, you think Peyton Manning is a better QB than Tom Brady. I'm not even arguing that but thanks for letting me know

The QB has the most influence on the outcome especially QBs of that caliber where everything is built around them. If Peyton(and Brady in recent years) was leading his team to 25-30 PPG and they were losing 31-28, 35-31,... I wouldn't pin the losses on him but most of the losses of his teams trace back to the QB.

Then Brady should get some credit if it's not easy, right?

Peyton set up a 50 yd FG at Miami in a game against a choking D where he led his team to 3 pts in the final 3 qtrs

against us he set up a 50+ yd FG needing 1 1st down to ensure we couldn't get it back to win.

against pitt he was given multiple gifts and had 2nd and 3rd and 2 on the Pitt 28 but chose to go for 6 instead of moving the chains and getting his K closer.

Again, Peyton had AV for as many years as Brady- where are all the FG wins?

The situations aren't alike.

I was making a point which I made quite well that as "bad" as Brady has been since his great start he's still been better than Peyton.

There's no double standard, I'm stating a fact. I didn't say that was why they lost the game, did I? Stop interpreting.

W/ peyton you guys always have excuses, the bottom line is his teams are 9-11 mainly b/c of QB play and to be fair NE is struggling in recent years b/c Brady hsn't been the same. These guys always get all the credit, if Den beat Bal everyone would have been praising Peyton despite throwing a pick 6 and getting 2 STs TDs but when he justly deserves blame the Manning backers will give every excuse in the book. I've seen it for many, many, many years.

[Murrell2878]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

He threw the INT for the TD, right? he gets blame.

Did manning get TWO TDs? Yes.

Did Manning give 7 back on an INT? yes.

Did manning Tos lead directly to 17 points? Yes.

that's the most absurd thing I have ever read. The INT stat goes to the QB, but not all INTs are the QB's fault. Manning threw a good pass to Decker who let it bounce off his hands.

Did Manning give them the lead in the 4th Quarter? Yes

Did the defense blow it? yes

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by Murrell2878

that's the most absurd thing I have ever read. The INT stat goes to the QB, but not all INTs are the QB's fault. Manning threw a good pass to Decker who let it bounce off his hands.

Did Manning give them the lead in the 4th Quarter? Yes

Did the defense blow it? yes

DB was on WRs back, INT was not fault of WR.

manning gave them the lead b/c he was given 14 pts including the opening KO of the 2nd half.

The D blew it late but Peyton had TWO chances to win it w/ a FG, he did set up a K to win it but it was the K for the Ravens w/ ANOTHER turnover.

[Murrell2878]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

DB was on WRs back, INT was not fault of WR.

manning gave them the lead b/c he was given 14 pts including the opening KO of the 2nd half.

The D blew it late but Peyton had TWO chances to win it w/ a FG, he did set up a K to win it but it was the K for the Ravens w/ ANOTHER turnover.

The pass hit Decker in the hands. He NEEDS to make that catch. There was nothing wrong with the decision or the throw

You don't know that they don't score on the drives if there wasn't a ST's TD. He DID lead TD drives of 74, 86 and 88 yards. So stop w/ the given 14 points nonsense.

Manning gave them the lead in the 4th Qtr and the D blew it w/ :31 secs to go.

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by Murrell2878

The pass hit Decker in the hands. He NEEDS to make that catch. There was nothing wrong with the decision or the throw

You don't know that they don't score on the drives if there wasn't a ST's TD. He DID lead TD drives of 74, 86 and 88 yards. So stop w/ the given 14 points nonsense.

Manning gave them the lead in the 4th Qtr and the D blew it w/ :31 secs to go.

hit him in the hands w/ a DB on his back kncoking the ball away.

nonense? he was handed 14 pts, hed led one scoring drive in the 2nd half.

STs gave them a lead, Peyton couldn't pad it or run out the clock.

has Peyton ever done anything wrong? every time he fails(which is every postseason) there is always an excuse.

[gopats88]

Originally Posted by Joe Willie White Shoes

From 2001-2004, the Pats were defined mostly by their defense and won SBs by frustrating good offensive teams like the Colts and the Rams. In 2004 they had Corey Dillon and a very good running game to go with that defense. Brady was more of a game manager then.

After that, they became a QB centric team, concentrating on the passing game and building around Brady rather than the defense and running game. And ever since Brady became the emphasis (and I throw in Spygate), the Pats have not won a championship and Brady has come up with some poor post season performances. That is why I start after 2004.

All this talk of a Patriot dynasty I hear all the time is BS. The Pats have not won in over 8 years now. Winning division titles does not make a team a dynasty.

I've repeatedly admitted that the Patriots dynasty ended back in 2004 when they won their most recent Super Bowl.

However, your original post seemed to indicate that you feel quality of a QB (at least comparatively) can be simplified to how recently they won a Super Bowl. You asked "how can the QB who hasn't won a SB more recently be better than the other". Now, I think you already know how absurd that logic is, but I just wanted to point it out anyway. If you don't realize how stupid that is, then you must be preparing to call either Kaupernick or Flacco the best QB in the league.