[Barcs]

Originally Posted by Trip McNealy

Troll aside, there are some serious flaws in our scouting dept if they couldnt see Jones was a better player than Coples.

That's some stupidity, especially saying that after half a season. They play different positions and aren't comparable based on their impact to the teams. Coples was ranked ahead of Jones for a reason. So I guess Kiper and all the experts are idiots as well?

[MurrellMartin]

Jones is a pure edge rusher. Coples is an inside rusher, a 34 DE or 43 DT. They're two totally different players. To compare the two is foolish. To say the Jets should have picked an outside rusher when they already had a 34 DE/43 DT in Muhammed Wilkerson is another thing. That would be correct. Poor drafting decision, but still a good player. Just not what we needed.

[KurtTheJetsFan]

Originally Posted by MurrellMartin

Jones is a pure edge rusher. Coples is an inside rusher, a 34 DE or 43 DT. They're two totally different players. To compare the two is foolish. To say the Jets should have picked an outside rusher when they already had a 34 DE/43 DT in Muhammed Wilkerson is another thing. That would be correct. Poor drafting decision, but still a good player. Just not what we needed.

In Rex's D Coples is the far greater commodity b/c you can play him in all those multi-fronts. He can 1 gap, 2 gap & 3 gap.

Jones is nothing more than a 9 gapper. He would be a part time player in this scheme. He isn't big enough to set the edge in Rex's 3-4 look & doesn't have the ability to 1 or 3 gap. He'd essentially be Aaron Maybin. Yes far more productive in that role but not an every down player.

[44 and counting]

Originally Posted by MurrellMartin

Jones is a pure edge rusher. Coples is an inside rusher, a 34 DE or 43 DT. They're two totally different players. To compare the two is foolish. To say the Jets should have picked an outside rusher when they already had a 34 DE/43 DT in Muhammed Wilkerson is another thing. That would be correct. Poor drafting decision, but still a good player. Just not what we needed.

Good point on Jones. As for not needing Coples, Talk to the Giants about drafting extra D-Lineman. See how that worked out for them

[Elijah]

I'm not saying that Coples is bad or anything, because I haven't been watching the Jets enough to make that judgment, but Jones is certainly not a "one trick pony." He might only have one pass rush move, which might be what the poster last page meant, but he's also very good against the run. I wouldn't be surprised to see his production go down, just because he's already got so many sacks, but he looks to be the real deal.

[KurtTheJetsFan]

Originally Posted by Elijah

I'm not saying that Coples is bad or anything, because I haven't been watching the Jets enough to make that judgment, but Jones is certainly not a "one trick pony." He might only have one pass rush move, which might be what the poster last page meant, but he's also very good against the run. I wouldn't be surprised to see his production go down, just because he's already got so many sacks, but he looks to be the real deal.

Nobody is saying Jones isn't a good player. He's certainly gonna be a potential pro bowler in any given season. But he isn't a dominant player or franchise altering. Additionally he is a 1 trick pony from a scheme perspective. He can 9 gap & 2 gap as a 4-3 down lineman.In other words you can't play him in alot of different spots/formations. In a Rex Ryan theme, It's all about versatility.

Additionally we've already seen the better OTs have their way w/ him after a series or 2. He's got a quick first step & can bend.He was a good draft pick. But he isn't special.

[CJLang]

Originally Posted by KurtTheJetsFan

Nobody is saying Jones isn't a good player. He's certainly gonna be a potential pro bowler in any given season. But he isn't a dominant player or franchise altering. Additionally he is a 1 trick pony from a scheme perspective. He can 9 gap & 2 gap as a 4-3 down lineman.In other words you can't play him in alot of different spots/formations. In a Rex Ryan theme, It's all about versatility.

Additionally we've already seen the better OTs have their way w/ him after a series or 2. He's got a quick first step & can bend.He was a good draft pick. But he isn't special.

This analysis is as silly as the ones trying to rate Coples. You nor I have any idea whether or not Jones or Coples is going to be special or not.

The idea that Jones can only play one position or is good at only one thing is premature and not even accurate so far. The idea that Rex's system somehow calls for players to be more versatile than BB's system also is not factual.

So far Jones has been asked to play in every game situation and Coples is asked to play in more specific situations, so which player has been more versatile so far?

It's gonna take at least two full seasons before any judgements should even be made on either of these guys.

[sanchize]

Originally Posted by Ted

A Pats fan coming in and taking about defensive draft picks under Bellichik? The great one was handed Parcells and Carrolls talent and lucked into Brady. Since the P/C talent retired or moved on, the Pats defense has been sorry.

Bellichik has got to be the most over rated NFL personality I have seen in more then 40 years of watching football.

Yea i say the same thing. He was handed talent that was built up by Parcels and Carroll and Pioli built up. Although in his defense it is hard to pick players late in the 1st round like the Colts. Once Brady retires its bad news bears. Unfortunately the Jets have no QB either.

[truthbtold]

Originally Posted by Trip McNealy

Troll aside, there are some serious flaws in our scouting dept if they couldnt see Jones was a better player than Coples.

Brougt to you by the same organization that gave you Alex Van Dyke three picks ahead of Amani Toomer.

Alex FREAKIN' Van Dyke!
I still haven't gotten over that one.

[sanchise]

Coples cannot be compared as he is an interior lineman. Give him a better coach, and he can be special. There's no doubt that he can put pressure on the QB, but he needs to a better job closing in on the run. These are two different schemes, and in some cases pointless to make a judgment on the number of sacks. Ninkovich isn't a special player, but he showed up on one play against the Jets and he's all hyped up.

Give Coples some time, and he'll get it. He's not Gholston, and he's better than Carlos Dunlap (they share measurables). He can be a lineman, he can put pressure on the QB, and I'd rather have him on my team than on the Dolphins or Pats.

[Elijah]

Originally Posted by sanchize

Yea i say the same thing. He was handed talent that was built up by Parcels and Carroll and Pioli built up. Although in his defense it is hard to pick players late in the 1st round like the Colts. Once Brady retires its bad news bears. Unfortunately the Jets have no QB either.

I'm not sure about this one. BB's drafting may not be perfect, but in the 90s, Bobby Grier had some god-awful drafts and kept his job because of a few lucky picks (Bruschi, Law, Martin). Remember Andy Katzenmoyer?

[Br4dw4y5ux]

Originally Posted by Elijah

I'm not sure about this one. BB's drafting may not be perfect, but in the 90s, Bobby Grier had some god-awful drafts and kept his job because of a few lucky picks (Bruschi, Law, Martin). Remember Andy Katzenmoyer?

Parcells teams make it hard to evaluate the evaluators talent. He is so demanding in what he looks for from a player and kind of rule-bound as well. That makes for a few players with strange attributes and then a lot of cuts after the fact.

He does however wind up coaching an unusual amount of absolute top end talent so there is method to his madness.

[Greeny]

Jones is hardly a one trick pony. He's played in 4/3 and 3/4. He's done a great job of setting the edge and is very strong at the poa. Something people thought would be a weakness. He also has a few pretty good rush moves. Guy is versatile , strong , explosive and smart. At least right now he's clearly the better player. That D is 1-2 players away from being a top ten unit for the next 4-5 years.

[CJLang]

Originally Posted by sanchize

Yea i say the same thing. He was handed talent that was built up by Parcels and Carroll and Pioli built up. Although in his defense it is hard to pick players late in the 1st round like the Colts. Once Brady retires its bad news bears. Unfortunately the Jets have no QB either.

It's amazing how wrong this is. Belichick gutted the team and brought in lots and lots of veteran role players to go withhis draft picks. The first SB team was made up of guys he and Pioli brought in.

Veterans picked up
Mike Vrabel- starting lb
Bryan Cox- starting lb
Marc Edwards
Antowain Smith- starting rb
Bobby Hamilton- starting dl
Anthony Pleasant
Larry Izzo
Roman Phifer
Otis Smith
Jermaine Wiggins- starting te
Terrell Buckley
Mike Compton- starting center
Joe andruzzi- starting guard

His draft picks
Richard Seymour
Matt Light
Kenyatta Jones
Tom Brady

[2insane]

Wait a few years before comparing Coples and Jones.

Belichick adapts. From a defensive team to offensive team. 3-4 to 4-3. Spread offense to 2 TE offense.