Former Raiders safety Tatum dies at age 61

[Cakes]

Does Steve Grogan deserve some blame for throwing a terrible pass? Also, it really wasn't a late hit.

Originally Posted by dubagedi

Good riddance to this sack of shit. Paralyzed a guy in the preseason on a late hit, never once visited him in the hospital, never apologized, and like CJLang says only reached out when he was trying to turn a profit. Enjoy hell you douchebag.

[JetsNation06]

Originally Posted by CJLang

I don't buy that at all. He was already late in his career when it happened. Tatum used that hit to try to make money for the rest of his life. He never "reached out" to Stingley until he needed to sell copies of his book. He tried to "reach out" to Stingley again in the 2000's, but they felt it was just another instance of trying to exploit it.

Tatum tried to visit Stingley in the hospital after the hit and before he wrote any book about the incident. Stingley's family denied Tatum's request.

Also I was talking about how the immaculate reception won't be the deciding factor regarding his entry into the Hall of Fame because it was way too early in his career and before he even entered his prime which included being one of the top safeties in the game.

[Cakes]

Originally Posted by JetsNation06

At least get the facts right. That is patently untrue that Tatum waited until the book came out to visit Stingley. It is well known that Tatum tried to visit Stingley in the hospital after the hit and before he wrote any book about the incident. Stingley's family denied Tatum's request.

Also what are you talking about late in his career when it happened. You're now mixing up what I said. I was talking about how the immaculate reception won't be the deciding factor regarding his entry into the Hall of Fame because it was way too early in his career and before he even entered his prime which included being one of the top safeties in the game.

Well, you confused several people in this thread then.

In post #13, it appears you were writing about the Stingley hit when you wrote this-
"No doubt that there were other safeties in the same era that had more Pro Bowls and All Pro honors than Tatum. However part of that was due to him never being the same after the hit. It completely changed him as a football player and person.

And the Hall of Fame voters knew it was a legal hit however it was the perception among the popular media and fans everywhere that he was some kind of thug and dirty player and this didn't help his cause for the HOF."

[JetsNation06]

Originally Posted by Cakes

Well, you confused several people in this thread then.

In post #13, it appears you were writing about the Stingley hit when you wrote this-
"No doubt that there were other safeties in the same era that had more Pro Bowls and All Pro honors than Tatum. However part of that was due to him never being the same after the hit. It completely changed him as a football player and person.

And the Hall of Fame voters knew it was a legal hit however it was the perception among the popular media and fans everywhere that he was some kind of thug and dirty player and this didn't help his cause for the HOF."

I'm not sure how you're getting that out of what I wrote but spin as you may.

I never said he was early on his career when he made the hit. I said the Immaculate Reception was early on his career and before he entered his prime and this is why it wouldn't impact his HOF chances as much as the Stingley hit would.. For some reason you're saying that I said the hit was early on in his career when he was obviously in his 8th season in the league when that happened. I never said anything to the contrary regarding his age when the hit happened.

[Cakes]

Originally Posted by JetsNation06

I'm not sure how you're getting that out of what I wrote but spin as you may.

It's the way you wrote it. I am not the only one who is now confused by what you wrote.

I am not trying to spin anything.

[CJLang]

Originally Posted by JetsNation06

Tatum tried to visit Stingley in the hospital after the hit and before he wrote any book about the incident. Stingley's family denied Tatum's request.

Also I was talking about how the immaculate reception won't be the deciding factor regarding his entry into the Hall of Fame because it was way too early in his career and before he even entered his prime which included being one of the top safeties in the game.

It's not in Tatum's book. Years after the fact his people threw out the idea that he tried to visit Stingley. Why wouldn't he have put it in his book if that were the case.

[Ten]

Originally Posted by CJLang

It's not in Tatum's book. Years after the fact his people threw out the idea that he tried to visit Stingley. Why wouldn't he have put it in his book if that were the case.

To view links in this forum your post count must be 10 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

Although I can understand why the family turned down his request so soon after the accident.

[JetsNation06]

Originally Posted by Cakes

It's the way you wrote it. I am not the only one who is now confused by what you wrote.

I am not trying to spin anything.

I just explained it for you in my last post and obviously you see that you combined two separate points that I was making. Furthermore, now that I look back at what you quoted from my original text, there was nothing in there that contradicts what I said after that. So not even sure what point you were trying to call me out on.

So to recap: He was in his 2nd year in the league when the Immaculate Reception happened. Thus not being the critical factor of his entry into the HOF that you are trying to make it out to be.

Secondly, the hit was in his 8th year in the league and of course this had an impact on his HOF chances, right or wrong. I never said anything to the contrary.

[JetsNation06]

Originally Posted by CJLang

It's not in Tatum's book. Years after the fact his people threw out the idea that he tried to visit Stingley. Why wouldn't he have put it in his book if that were the case.

You are wrong. Tatum and Madden were there for TWO DAYS after the hit. Here's the quote:


"The hospital they brought him to was about a seven-minute drive from my home in the Oakland Hills," he said. "I stayed there until 5 a.m. the next day before finally going home. But Jack and (coach) John Madden stood vigil there for two days. When the doctor finally said, 'OK, you can see him now,' Darryl's agent stepped in and said, 'I don't think that's a good idea.' "



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[Cakes]

Oh boy. I had made it clear that I do not think the I R play has kept Tatum out if the HoF. I will respond further this evening.

Originally Posted by JetsNation06

I just explained it for you in my last post and obviously you see that you combined two separate points that I was making. Furthermore, now that I look back at what you quoted from my original text, there was nothing in there that contradicts what I said after that. So not even sure what point you were trying to call me out on.

So to recap: He was in his 2nd year in the league when the Immaculate Reception happened. Thus not being the critical factor of his entry into the HOF that you are trying to make it out to be.

Secondly, the hit was in his 8th year in the league and of course this had an impact on his HOF chances, right or wrong. I never said anything to the contrary.

[Cakes]

Originally Posted by JetsNation06

I just explained it for you in my last post and obviously you see that you combined two separate points that I was making. Furthermore, now that I look back at what you quoted from my original text, there was nothing in there that contradicts what I said after that. So not even sure what point you were trying to call me out on.

So to recap: He was in his 2nd year in the league when the Immaculate Reception happened. Thus not being the critical factor of his entry into the HOF that you are trying to make it out to be.

Secondly, the hit was in his 8th year in the league and of course this had an impact on his HOF chances, right or wrong. I never said anything to the contrary.

Your first comments in this thread-
"Take away the Stingley hit and Tatum is in the Hall of Fame today. He was a great RB and DB at Passaic HS and was an All American there and at OSU. One of the most ferocious hitters of all-time. He didn't start playing football until his soph year in hs. He seemed very frayed in later years and I'm sure much of that was due to the stress and strain of the Stingley incident. RIP Assassin and Stingley."

I responded to that by basically informing you that Tatum is in a logjam with a bunch of other good safeties. I listed six safeties on his level who played the bulk of their career in the 1970s just like Tatum. I also noted a 7th player. That guy was Johnny Robinson. Robinson's final year was Tatum's rookie year. I didn't even bother to list safeties from the 1950s, 1960s, and 1980s who are arguably just as good or better than Tatum but not in the PFHOF.







gotta go, will finish this later

[Cakes]

So then you responded with-
"No doubt that there were other safeties in the same era that had more Pro Bowls and All Pro honors than Tatum. However part of that was due to him never being the same after the hit. It completely changed him as a football player and person.

And the Hall of Fame voters knew it was a legal hit however it was the perception among the popular media and fans everywhere that he was some kind of thug and dirty player and this didn't help his cause for the HOF.

Not sure if the Immaculate Reception play necessarily kept him out of the HOF. It was not a good football play however it was his 2nd year in the league and he made 3 straight Pro Bowls after that season so it was a little too early in his career to define it."


When you wrote "the hit" in the first paragraph you were referencing the Stingley hit.


____________

It response to that post from you, CJLang wrote that the Stingley hit occurred late in Tatum's career.

You then wrote, "Also what are you talking about late in his career when it happened. You're now mixing up what I said. I was talking about how the immaculate reception won't be the deciding factor regarding his entry into the Hall of Fame because it was way too early in his career and before he even entered his prime which included being one of the top safeties in the game."

CJLang and myself knew what you were talking about. It was pretty clear you were referencing the Stingley hit until it was revealed by you that you were not referencing the Stingley hit.


And again- I do not believe any single play can keep any single player out of the PFHOF. I was only playing along- you know, if a single play could keep a guy out, as for Tatum it would be the Immaculate Reception as opposed to the preseason hit on Stingley.