[hutch2426]

Originally Posted by Concerned_Citizen

There really isn't a lot of difference with the defense. They didn't run a lot of 3-4 last year either. We just didn't have the D-linemen for it.

besides it is irrelevant. The defense was actually pretty solid last year despite what the rankings say. Most of that was skewed thanks to games like Green Bay, New Englane, and Detroit. Look at each game individually, and focus on the ones they won... not hard to see who actually did the heavy lifting.

Also, here's why the rankings are misleading, IMO.

The defense had the ranking in the 20s because the offense never stayed on the field. More time on the field, more possessions, more yards are going to get racked up on you. You pretty much saw them at their worst since they were always heading back on the field after a 2 minute break. Offense did them almost no favors other than punting rather than turning the ball over. Rewind a few years back when the Broncos were ranked 30 out of 32... Only teams that were worse were Kansas City and the 0-16 Detroit Lions. However, NEITHER of those teams had an offense that stayed on the field. The Broncos actually had a half way decent one that year with Cutler, ranked #7. If they had either Detroit's or Kansas City's punt all the time offense... like the one we had last year... no question that defense would have been 32 and it wouldn't have been even close to 31.

Put last years defense with an offense that actually stayed on the field, they would probably have been closer to a top 10 last year.

Without all the fluff on the post the broncos were 5th in time of possession with Tebow and 30th before. This does not negate the fact he probably will never get better, but 5th is a pretty good place to put your defense in.

[Concerned_Citizen]

Originally Posted by hutch2426

Without all the fluff on the post the broncos were 5th in time of possession with Tebow and 30th before. This does not negate the fact he probably will never get better, but 5th is a pretty good place to put your defense in.

Looking at a stat sheet with no context... sure.

Watching the games and looking at the big picture, not so much.

Time of possession looked fairly good because the clock didn't stop that much when Tebow was out there. run run run punt, run run run punt.... that pattern will chew up some clock even when leading the league in three and outs.

Wasn't what it was cracked up to be in games like the Jets game last year too. Look at the time of possession for that game, it is almost identical. However, the Broncos defense was out there for 15 more plays than the Jets defense was. I wonder which one will get worn down more?

That means the Jets defense got to stand around out there in their huddle with the clock running. The Broncos had to grind through more time clock chasing a RB or receiver down and wrestling them to the ground.

Just becasuse the Broncos got more time of possession from running the ball all the time doesn't mean it was good when they were still getting three and outs and ending far too many drives with a punt.

that, and eating up clock time is better for teams that actually play with the lead, which was rare for the Broncos last year.

[hutch2426]

Originally Posted by Concerned_Citizen

Looking at a stat sheet with no context... sure.

Watching the games and looking at the big picture, not so much.

Time of possession looked fairly good because the clock didn't stop that much when Tebow was out there. run run run punt, run run run punt.... that pattern will chew up some clock even when leading the league in three and outs.

Wasn't what it was cracked up to be in games like the Jets game last year too. Look at the time of possession for that game, it is almost identical. However, the Broncos defense was out there for 15 more plays than the Jets defense was. I wonder which one will get worn down more?

That means the Jets defense got to stand around out there in their huddle with the clock running. The Broncos had to grind through more time clock chasing a RB or receiver down and wrestling them to the ground.

Just becasuse the Broncos got more time of possession from running the ball all the time doesn't mean it was good when they were still getting three and outs and ending far too many drives with a punt.

that, and eating up clock time is better for teams that actually play with the lead, which was rare for the Broncos last year.

I'd say that would be more on the coaching staff, than the QB itself. They chose to be conservative a lot for most of three quarters, but it did give the defenses a break. You probably know more about that than I, but Tebow did help by not turning the ball over and putting the defense in bad situations.

If a team ever chose to build around him, it could be decent but that is a process that few coaches would do. All in all he came in with a bad record and horrible situation and the team went from almost last to fifth in T.O.P. which gives the defense a breather. Can you win a Super Bowl with it, probably not but it gave the team chance and succeeded.

That's why I enjoy Carolina and Washington's offense, they built around a spread option type offense. A lot of the plays in those games gives a lot of screen and dump off passes that result in wide open receivers down the field. I believe he could do that, but I think that time has passed. I gotta say they are fun to watch. The only thing about Newton is he puts the defense in horrible situations with his turnovers.

[Concerned_Citizen]

Originally Posted by hutch2426

I'd say that would be more on the coaching staff, than the QB itself. They chose to be conservative a lot for most of three quarters, but it did give the defenses a break. You probably know more about that than I, but Tebow did help by not turning the ball over and putting the defense in bad situations.

I have a hard time believing you are giving the defense a break when you go from somewhere in the middle of the pack, toy leading the league in three and outs in a few weeks after the Tebow switch. I kinda wondered how time of possession actually got better with that, and those are the conclusions I came up with when analyzing what was happening.

2 key things resolved that paradox. One, the Broncos defense was getting off the field holding teams to short drives of their own. plus, the offense ran the ball as a disproportionate amount of the plays. So the clock rarely stopped. Both of them are going to improve time of possession. What also helped come to that conclusion is that on average, BOTH teams during bronco games averaged 3 more possessions EACH per game from what it used to be. That's 3 more times the defense had to make a 3rd down stop after ANOTHER short drive by the offense.

So what happens if you give a guy like Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady 3 more possessions? they're gonna kick your ass so hard it will be sore for months... that's what.

I would rather the time of possession come from longer sustained drives, myself.

That's why I enjoy Carolina and Washington's offense, they built around a spread option type offense. A lot of the plays in those games gives a lot of screen and dump off passes that result in wide open receivers down the field. I believe he could do that, but I think that time has passed. I gotta say they are fun to watch. The only thing about Newton is he puts the defense in horrible situations with his turnovers.

Fun to watch if it works. Never was a big believer in spread option offenses myself in the NFL. I think it works better in college running those extra receivers, because often the 2nd, third, and 4th receivers on the teams that use it the most are light years better than the guys covering them. Most of the 3rd and 4th guys covering are selling insurance when college is said and done. Not gonna get that in the NFL, and in the end, you still gotta be somewhat accurate with passing. Accuracy is probably the biggest knock on Tebow, which is why if a team with vision thinks they can win by building around him, they REALLY have their work cut out for them.