[displacedfan]

Originally Posted by Backup QB

Because you are missing the point. Whether he took a week off because his Michael Vick killed his dog, or he had to fly into outer space to put a nuclear bomb in an asteroid that was heading for the earth to save the world, or he was in jail for stealing an old lady's purse... the point is when he was available to play he was BENCHED and LOST his starting job. The reason why he was benched is because they felt someone else would have or had already OUTPERFORMED him. Why is this so hard for you to understand? His BENCHING was based off of PERFORMANCE. Jesus Christ man!

If he was injured and never unable to return, you would have an argument. But the fact is, he came back healthy, ready-to-go, and was benched. The second part to this is that he was not butt-hurt and ruined as a result of his BENCHING.

Why are you still arguing?

Well, uh I don't think you've been reading what either of us has been saying. I've been talking about the initial benching of QBs and you are talking about the coming back of a QB when healthy. There are two different situations. Let me explain it to you simply:

A) You work in an office. You get hurt and can't operate a computer so your assistant takes over for two weeks while you get healthy again.

B) You work in an office. Your assistant takes over for you because your boss says you aren't doing a good job.

I say those two are different and you and your assistant would handle the assistant taking over differently for A and B.

Now you are looking at what happens when you are healthy and ready to come back in example A.

And there in lies our frustration. We haven't been on the same page at all.

I also think your focusing on the offseason switch in the Cardinals made and I am focusing on the in season switch the Cardinals made. I'm not positive on this one, but I do think your referencing the offseason because that's when Skelton took over without any injury where in the last two time Skelton took over it was Turf Toe and Concussion symptoms + Kolb not passing test with flying colors.

All in all we both agree Kolb was not ruined.

You think Kolb serves as a similar example to what could happen here. I don't think Kolb serves as a similar example to what could happen here.

I don't think Sanchez would be ruined. I don't believe you think Sanchez would be ruined.

We both agree it's too soon for Sanchez to be benched.


Now you'll probably come back yelling at me getting more frustrated but I think basically sums up the whole thing. We were discussing two different things and since posts days apart on message boards isn't the best form of communication and we were provoking each other, we lost that important detail when discussing.

[JetsNation06]

Watch the games with your own eyes. Don't rely on other people. Mark Sanchez can't hit an open WR to save his life. He's already damaged. People need to deal with the fact that their mancrush Mark Sanchez is a below average NFL QB.

[titan999]

It seems to me a sure thing that continuing to play him will ruin the Jets.

[ouchy]

I see a lot of people complaining about Sanchez’s accuracy. IMO he is fairly accurate when he has time. Part of Marks problem is he plays scared against strong pass rushes and stops reading the field or throwing good passes. He gets so raddled that he plays second by second with no real plan - like he is still a rookie.

Its not his accuracy its his mental state. He just doesn’t have the mental toughness to be a good QB.

[LongTimeJetsFan]

Originally Posted by ouchy

I see a lot of people complaining about Sanchez’s accuracy. IMO he is fairly accurate when he has time. Part of Marks problem is he plays scared against strong pass rushes and stops reading the field or throwing good passes. He gets so raddled that he plays second by second with no real plan - like he is still a rookie.

Its not his accuracy its his mental state. He just doesn’t have the mental toughness to be a good QB.

Yea I don't know if mental toughness is the right term, maybe it is - I don't know, but I agree that this is one of his biggest weaknesses. He seemed to overcome it at the end of the Miami game but in the Steelers and Niners games he did like he often has in his career and played like a retard once he took some hits and things weren't going well.

We've also seen him bounce back from games like this and play well the following week, so I'd think that would be on the plus side of "mental toughness" or whatever phrase you want to use.

[JetsNation06]

Originally Posted by ouchy

I see a lot of people complaining about Sanchez’s accuracy. IMO he is fairly accurate when he has time. Part of Marks problem is he plays scared against strong pass rushes and stops reading the field or throwing good passes. He gets so raddled that he plays second by second with no real plan - like he is still a rookie.

Its not his accuracy its his mental state. He just doesn’t have the mental toughness to be a good QB.

That's like saying a guy has the ability to do something but just can't get it done because of other reasons.

Bottom line is, Sanchez is inaccurate. Whether it be due to his happy feet in the pocket or double and triple pumping, his throws end up being underthrown, behind his receivers or he ends up taking a sack.

So the result is still the same that he sucks. Time to move on.

[mr nyjet]

Originally Posted by JetsNation06

That's like saying a guy has the ability to do something but just can't get it done because of other reasons.

Bottom line is, Sanchez is inaccurate. Whether it be due to his happy feet in the pocket or double and triple pumping, his throws end up being underthrown, behind his receivers or he ends up taking a sack.

So the result is still the same that he sucks. Time to move on.

this is year 4 as a starter! Tom Landry used to say if he hasn't gotten it done in 3, odds are he never will.
he has already had enough time, and he does not have it.
it's time to move on.

[Revis Now Redux]

Originally Posted by mr nyjet

this is year 4 as a starter! Tom Landry used to say if he hasn't gotten it done in 3, odds are he never will.
he has already had enough time, and he does not have it.
it's time to move on.

Exactly, His spiral is horrible and his accuracy is so bad when throwing to the sidelines.

Mark Lacks the talent that can make him great. Alex Smith had tons of different coordinators and coaches but have found his niche with Harbaugh but i really feel Mark is just not an NFL starter.

Mark cannot even lead receivers or throw to guys standing in place, we need to move on.

[yahoo]

I think it's odd that almost every NFL observer and most Jets fans have seen enough of Sanchez and his fragile mind to know he probably doesn't have the goods, yet the Jets brass keeps propping him up like an old rickety fence.

[Sanchito6]

Originally Posted by Revis Now Redux

Exactly, His spiral is horrible and his accuracy is so bad when throwing to the sidelines.

Mark Lacks the talent that can make him great. Alex Smith had tons of different coordinators and coaches but have found his niche with Harbaugh but i really feel Mark is just not an NFL starter.

Mark cannot even lead receivers or throw to guys standing in place, we need to move on.

he actually throws a very 'pretty' ball. spiral and form wise. Sure he isn't very accurate. But his ball comes out nice. Tebow on the other hand throws a wobble. and Ironically the prettiest ball I saw this year came from Matt Simms. lol I'm not talking completion percentage or accuracy or anything. I'm purely talking how the ball looks and releases from the hand. Been sitting 10th row behind the jets bench for 16 years. (still the prettiest ball was Vinny's)

[Tebowverde]

Sanchez should totally be benched on the next game, won't happen though. Rex doesn't seem to care for Tebow at all. Maybe if he actually let him play as qb and not a blocker or receiver..might go better. Oh wait, Rex let him call the coin toss that one time..nice.

[Rex's Sweater Vest]

This thread title implies that he wasn't damaged goods from the start. Does it ever make any of the Sanchez supporters feel odd that only they seem to be the ones that see ANYTHING in Sanchez that indicates to them that he will be a successful starting QB? Other Jets fans realize Sanchez isn't going to cut it, all of the fans of every other team realize this as well.

Let's face the facts as we've seen them over the past 3 seasons and change:

Sanchez has no positive physical traits that separate him from other QBs, in fact he has traits that lessen his potential such as his short height for a QB which has led to so many batted balls. So I really have no idea what the Sanchez supporters see in him as a promising attribute of his imminent success in their view. He doesn't have a high football IQ, he is not a running QB, there is no unique trait to him that gives him an edge of any kind on the field.

Sanchez doesn't have good reaction time under pressure. Sure when Sanchez has time he can hit open targets, but when he is under pressure he regresses to the rookie Sanchez and he will make really dumb decisions often ending in a turnover.

Sanchez is an inaccurate passer. Sanchez can hit an open receiver on 5 yard 10 yard 15 yard routes, but when you extend these routes past 15 yards he seems to more often than not be inaccurate, especially under pressure. How many times have we seen open receivers on longer routes and the ball sails 10 yards over their head, and not to mention, Good quarterbacks learn how to lead their receivers, anticipate where the receiver will be and then throw the pass at that location, Sanchez has not learned how to do this consistently at all. When he throws, he throws it at the WR and only at the WR, and it will often times end up behind the receiver or a defenders will be able to make a defensive play on the ball.

Sanchez doesn't put any zip on his passes. Sanchez doesn't throw the ball hard enough, I almost never see him rifle a pass to a receiver in a narrow window, I remember embarrassingly enough last season when Jeremy Kerley threw a pass in week 17 in wildcat formation that that was probably the best pass I had seen all season, great spiral, great zip, it was thrown hard and with purpose, and I never see Sanchez pass like this. I don't know if it is a lack of arm strength, or just a lack of confidence but the man never throws like he's angry, throws like he has a killer instinct.

Sanchez is not a leader, he has no credibility to be a leader, he is not respected in the locker room as the undisputed leader. Sanchez has been coddled and groomed from day one to act like a leader, but he has never become one. You don't just get a C stitched on your jersey and automatically the locker room listens to you, you do it from experience and the credibility gained from your performance on and off the field. Thomas Jones earned that leadership role on this team, and we saw how upset the locker room was when the Jets and Jones parted ways, I doubt there would be the same outrage if Sanchez were to find his way to the exit.

And finally, Sanchez simply is not talented enough to be a franchise quarterback in the NFL; he needs exceptionally good circumstances around him to just look average, if even that. But he will never be great, I don't care if we get Calvin Johnson and Brandon Marshall as receivers, Sanchez will never be great. Sanchez has a low ceiling, and that ceiling was hit a long time ago. Time to find someone else to do the job, because Sanchez won't be able to do it, and simply has not merited the investment the Jets put in him by drafting him 5th overall.

In the 2012 season, only Ryan Tannehill and Brandon Weeden have lower QB ratings than Mark Sanchez; this is all you need to know. He is in the company of rookies, because he plays like a rookie.

[BrucekilledBoomer]

Originally Posted by Rex's Sweater Vest

Sanchez has no positive physical traits that separate him from other QBs, in fact he has traits that lessen his potential such as his short height for a QB which has led to so many batted balls. So I really have no idea what the Sanchez supporters see in him as a promising attribute of his imminent success in their view. He doesn't have a high football IQ, he is not a running QB, there is no unique trait to him that gives him an edge of any kind on the field.

This is probably the most overlooked thing about Sanchez. I often hear people say that Sanchez "has all the ability in the world" and I wonder what specific traits they're talking about? He doesn't have an elite arm, he lacks prototype size, he's not an elite runner, and he certainly doesn't display natural accuracy. Seems to me the idea that he has "all the ability in the world" comes from his draft position more than anything.

[bobaru]

^^ Put this thread (and Sanchez) to bed with these two posts. And..... seam! ^^

[Rex's Sweater Vest]

Originally Posted by BrucekilledBoomer

This is probably the most overlooked thing about Sanchez. I often hear people say that Sanchez "has all the ability in the world" and I wonder what specific traits they're talking about? He doesn't have an elite arm, he lacks prototype size, he's not an elite runner, and he certainly doesn't display natural accuracy. Seems to me the idea that he has "all the ability in the world" comes from his draft position more than anything.

Yes, I think you have a point about this myth of him having all the ability comes from his draft position, if he was drafted in the 3rd or 4th round I doubt many people would be so confident as to say he has "all the ability in the world"

I just don't see anything about him physically that would somehow indicate that he has all the ability in the world, or anything that would give him an edge on the field. No quarterback is perfect or possesses all of the attributes of the perfect qb, but every successful qb has SOMETHING, something to hang their hat on at the end of the day.

Take a look around the league:

Big Ben has his scrambling ability/ his ability to extend the play, Vick has his running ability, Brady has the football iq, the composure in the pocket/dragging out his time in the pocket till the last possible second, the arm strength. Rodgers has his arm strength, top of the line accuracy, and is one of the better scrambling QBs in the league. Brees has his accuracy/high football iq. The Manning brothers have two of the highest football IQs, arm strength, composure in the pocket.


Now looking at these players above, each of them does something exceptionally well or just has all around superior talent across the board than other QBs. But when I look at Sanchez I don't see anything that he does or an attribute he possesses that is exceptional at all. Even for non elite quarterbacks, just good quarterbacks, they all have something. Cutler has one of the strongest arms in the league, and I wouldn't consider him among the league's top/elite because he does have significant deficiencies, but he is head and shoulders above Sanchez just based on his arm strength which gives him big play ability and makes him a constant threat to score.

Sanchez doesn't have a strong arm, sure he can throw the ball 60 yards, but that doesn't mean anything. Arm strength is about more than just getting the ball 60 yards away from you, it's about being able to PASS it (not just throw it) to a target 60 yards away, about having the strength to throw deep not just once or a few times, but whenever necessary. It's also about being able to fire a pass into tight windows as defenders are closing in. Sanchez never does this, every pass he throws is low to medium velocity on short to intermediate routes.

Sanchez doesn't have a high football IQ, I don't even know how this can be disputed, I think this fact is just self evident. The boneheaded interceptions and irresponsibility with the football that never seem to end. From week 1 this season (dumb shuffle pass), week 17 last season (2 INTs by D lineman) The Broncos game last season with the game deciding pick 6. This guy just doesn't get it, sure if you got him in a film room he would be able to evaluate himself and say that it was a dumb decision, but Football IQ is also about being able to think on your feet, make quick-smart decisions in the moment and not just in the film room, and Sanchez has shown he is simply not good at this.

Sanchez is inaccurate, take a look at completion percentage in the NFL this season, Sanchez is DEAD LAST, 32nd in the league with 49.2% completion.
And I am already anticipating the excuses.. he has no receivers, they drop balls, etc. Do you think that the Jets receivers are the only ones that drop passes? Do you think that Sanchez is the only QB in the league with poor receivers?

In 2011, Sanchez was 23rd in the league with 56.7% completion.
In 2010, Sanchez was 27th with 54.8 % completion.
and in 2009, Sanchez was 28th with 53.3% completion.

Some people will say, oh he improved each year! that this is a positive trend, but all this says to me is that Sanchez is by nature an inaccurate passer, even failed quarterbacks and draft busts break 60% completion in their first year as a starter or first few years.

To put this in perspective, JP Losman has a high career average completion percentage than Mark Sanchez. JP Losman has a higher QB rating for his career than Mark Sanchez. Sanchez is just a hare above Jamarcus Russell in completion % average and depending on how inaccurate he is this year, he might find himself in Ryan Leaf territory.

in terms of overall QB rating Sanchez has ranked 28th in 2009, 27th in 2010, 23rd in 2011 and now 30th in 2012. There was slight improvement in 09-10-11 but this doesn't mean he is going to progress his way into the top 10, keep in mind with each successive year, more sucky rookies enter the league to boost his ranking. These stats don't show substantial improvement, they show that Sanchez is going to be a career, bottom half of the league QB. The stats show it, the performance shows it, the mere eye test of watching him play shows it.

Sanchez does not have a strong arm, does not have a high football IQ, is inaccurate, does nothing exceptionally well to add to the team. So what are people looking at when they say he has "all the ability in the world"? The stats don't show any such thing, the performance or lack thereof show no such thing, the mere eye test of having watched every game he has played since 2009 show no such thing. The idea that he has "all the ability in the world" is a delusion propagated by his high draft position as the user I quoted said, and by fans attributing to him more credit than he deserved for playoff success. Sanchez is not a franchise quarterback, and the time has come to move on from him as our starter.

[LongIslandLou]

Sometimes the bench can be a motivator. At this point I'd try anything to get Sanchez playing well. If he blows it on MNF I'm done with him

[LongIslandLou]

playing him seems to be ruining him, benching may help. His leash gets shorter and shorter

[Jiggystoon]

Sanchez? Tebow? Does it matter who is in when there is no one to throw to? I say keep him in, they gave him a new contract in the off season, let him earn it, putting Tebow in wont improve things

[Aewhistory]

Originally Posted by NYJets82

Totally false on what basis? Just because you think Sanchez has the worst supporting cast ever doesn't make it so.

RGIII's starting running back is a rookie that was drafted in the sixth-round. The only receiver on his roster that has ever had a 1,000 yard season is Santana Moss, who is 33 and had 580 yards receiving last year. He's also currently #6 in receiving yards on that team. The receiver with the most yards receiving is Leonard Hankerson, who had 160 receiving yards last year. Of RGIII's top 5 receiving options, 3 of them had fewer than 300 receiving yards last season.

Andrew Luck's starting running back is in his fourth year and has never reached 700 yards in a season. Four of his top five receiving options had fewer than 150 receiving yards last year. The only established skill position player on that offense is Reggie Wayne, who is 33.

The year prior to Cam Newton coming to Carolina, Steve Smith had 550 yards receiving. Brandon LaFell had 470. They ranked dead last in both points per game and yards per game. They had both of their current starting receivers on the roster and healthy. They had the same RBs and FB, although DeAngelo Williams missed some time. The only significant addition they have made was Greg Olson. That offense is entirely about Cam Newton. Before he got there, they were awful.

Tannehill's #1 receiver is Brian Hartline, who has never had 650 yards receiving in a season. There is not a single receiver or tight end on the roster that had 600 yards receiving last year. Their #1 running back was hurt last week and left the game in the first half. He played hurt this week and ran for 67 yards. Their backup running back is a fourth round rookie.

Of Bradford's top 5 receivers, only one has ever eclipsed 700 yards receiving in a season -- Steve Smith. Smith had 124 receiving yards last season, before joining the Rams. They also have the worst OL in the NFL. Bradford has been sacked the second-most of any QB so far this season, and Stephen Jackson is averaging 3.3 yards per carry.

None of the above have an established weapon the quality of Santonio, and the only offensive skill position players taken higher than Hill by the above teams were Brian Quick, who hasn't played, and Coby Fleener.

It was a mistake to include Locker in the original list -- I should have put him below, with younger QBs outplaying Sanchez that do have some weapons. Tennessee has a good amount of weapons, even despite Chris Johnson sucking it up. But you've still got a roughly 50/50 split of QBs younger than Sanchez outplaying him with equivalent or worse surrounding talent, and outplaying him with greater surrounding talent. It's also probably important to note that Sanchez sucked last year, too, with a greater talent level.

But what are their OLs like? And do they have good OCs? I'm not being facetious, but as a Jets fan we are all well aware of what a shit OC can do with talent. The same can be said about a good OC with mediocre talent. If you have a good OL, mediocre weapons, and a developing QB, but a really skilled OC can that OC overcome these weaknesses? That is the flaw in analyzing only part of the equation here. By saying that these players are outperforming Sanchez when they have no better weapons you omit the other major factors like OC and OL. If they have really good OLs or a creative OC, or both, that makes a difference IMHO.

Now in our case, I would say that Sanchez is average, our OC is out of his depth, our OL has holes, and we have few weapons. In other words, our offense is poor. But then again, something has to give right? After all, they had moments of looking fairly decent against the Texans last night.

[Jim-Jet]

Originally Posted by ouchy

I see a lot of people complaining about Sanchez’s accuracy. IMO he is fairly accurate when he has time. Part of Marks problem is he plays scared against strong pass rushes and stops reading the field or throwing good passes. He gets so raddled that he plays second by second with no real plan - like he is still a rookie.

Its not his accuracy its his mental state. He just doesn’t have the mental toughness to be a good QB.

Well it is his accuracy - we can discuss what is the cause but he isn't accurate at least the last 4 games.