[akibud]

Originally Posted by BronxJet

^^^^ So I guess the success we had the first two years was due to "loaded" roster led by Thomas Jones. Mark Sanchez and Greene?

Any competent coach would've won it his first 2 years? AFC championships don't make you a decent coach?


OK.

actually, It IS MY OPINION, that because of Sanchez and Ryan, the Jets did not win a SB one of those years. Go figure. BTW.. I have said teh Ryan is an average HC, A great DC, but simply an average HC..

[BronxJet]

Originally Posted by akibud

actually, It IS MY OPINION, that because of Sanchez and Ryan, the Jets did not win a SB one of those years. Go figure. BTW.. I have said teh Ryan is an average HC, A great DC, but simply an average HC..

Everyone has the right to be wrong, and everyone else has the right to call them on it.

[BacktoQueens]

Originally Posted by akibud

actually, It IS MY OPINION, that because of Sanchez and Ryan, the Jets did not win a SB one of those years. Go figure. BTW.. I have said teh Ryan is an average HC, A great DC, but simply an average HC..

Average HC, and great DC, is probably a fair assessment based on what we have seen to date.

The real criticisms i'd have of Rex so far:
-has had to rely totally on the OC. could never step in and call plays, and doesn't have the background to jump in and override an OC if it's needed
-put his faith in Tony Sparano to be that OC, and didn't make any adjustments when Tony proved to not be inventive enough to work around the bad QB play
-the team at times doesn't appear to be prepared enough, and makes too many mental mistakes

All that said, the Jets have been trying since '06 to build a team around defense and cold northeast weather football.
It's a blueprint that has kept teams like Balt and Pitt competitive every year.
I think that is the right approach, and Rex is a good coach for that blueprint.
Without a stud QB, you better play good D.

So while we continue that QB search, i'd stick with Rex and see if he can grow from average HC (strong D), into a strong HC (with strong D).
Continuity is the way of good franchises.
What potential HC fits the mold better who is available? maybe Cohwer...but no re-tread has ever won a SB with new team.
Stay the course..

[BronxJet]

Originally Posted by BacktoQueens

Average HC, and great DC, is probably a fair assessment based on what we have seen to date.

The real criticisms i'd have of Rex so far:
-has had to rely totally on the OC. could never step in and call plays, and doesn't have the background to jump in and override an OC if it's needed
-put his faith in Tony Sparano to be that OC, and didn't make any adjustments when Tony proved to not be inventive enough to work around the bad QB play
-the team at times doesn't appear to be prepared enough, and makes too many mental mistakes

All that said, the Jets have been trying since '06 to build a team around defense and cold northeast weather football.
It's a blueprint that has kept teams like Balt and Pitt competitive every year.
I think that is the right approach, and Rex is a good coach for that blueprint.
Without a stud QB, you better play good D.

So while we continue that QB search, i'd stick with Rex and see if he can grow from average HC (strong D), into a strong HC (with strong D).
Continuity is the way of good franchises.
What potential HC fits the mold better who is available? maybe Cohwer...but no re-tread has ever won a SB with new team.
Stay the course..

Solid assessment.


Though Rex has stepped in for offensive adjustments that he has acknowledged publicly, mostly relating to the wild cat and the running game.

[Big Blocker]

Originally Posted by displacedfan

Just a few things, wasn't the Cards game the one McElroy came in for Sanchez for? McElroy was clearly active because he played.

Ryan supports everything and everyone in the media. The one time he ripped his own player was Kerley and that's all I can remember. He's not going against FO/owner decisions or play of his players in front of the media. People like to say Rex is lying all the time in the media, but you really want him to come out and say "Tebow trade was not my idea, it was forced on me?". When he said something similar about Hill, there was a huge out roar about it.

The ground and pound strategy now makes more sense considering what Sanchez has become as QB. Rex stressed G&P in Sanchez's rookie year and remember going into Sanchez's thrid year, we planning on "airing it out" with Sanchez. When Sanchez suffered that destructful game in BAL, all of a sudden G&P came back to the media. When we got blown out against NE this year, all of a sudden, more G&P. Considering what he had at QB, G&P was probably the only strategy he had

I meant to refer I think it was to the Jville game in terms of Tebow being hurt and suited up as the backup. I apologize for the error. But on the substance, don't you think that was bs? And then to say he had hoped to get Tebow soms applause if he went into the game before his hometown crowd??? WTF?

On his handling his players, I am not primarily talking about what he says to the media. But even there there's some middle ground he can never seem to find that is something other than saying Mark Sanchez is a great Qb. The concern in any event is not what he says. It is what he does. After the 11 season, Sanchez did not deserve a guaranteed contract extension. If Ryan had ANY role in approving that move, all of us should have less confidence in him. All of us, even the homers.

On GnP, I kind of accept your point, up to a point. What you leave out is that Ryan should have realized before this season that Sanchez is not even good at being a game manager type Qb suited to run a GnP offense. He should have realized that adding Tebow was not going to improve the O. He should have known that adding Tebow also meant that the Jets did not have a real backup Qb at the same time he should have known he could not rely on MS to run even a GnP O.

Putting aside how much talent McElroy really has, even those who thought the Jets should have put him in there, such as myself, do not ascribe to the general proposition that a team should have to start their third string Qb for reasons other than injuries to the 1 and 2. And yet that is precisely the situation the Jets found themselves in. It was simply a case of bad management, and to the extent that Ryan had ANY responsibility in setting that situation up, he should be held to account.

The bigger picture here is that the Jets are in decline under Ryan's watch. What can his supporters point to that would, that should, give us reason to think he can turn it around and build a better contender going forward? Particularly on O. Is the strategy that the Jets should hire someone like Norv Turner, and turn the O over to him? I can see some sense in that. But let's not kid ourselves that Ryan is needed to make a contribution in THAT quarter.

As I said, I like Ryan. But right now, I have a hard time seeing how keeping him is going to benefit the Jets in terms of what they need going forward. It may be nothing more than a simple case of looking around and not seeing any better candidates to replace him. I get that, too. Kind of reminds me of last year this time and how i felt about all those who wanted to can Schotty. But if that's all it is, let's at least not be giving Rex unqualified and total support here. He's got a lot to answer for.

[akibud]

Originally Posted by BacktoQueens

Average HC, and great DC, is probably a fair assessment based on what we have seen to date.

The real criticisms i'd have of Rex so far:
-has had to rely totally on the OC. could never step in and call plays, and doesn't have the background to jump in and override an OC if it's needed
-put his faith in Tony Sparano to be that OC, and didn't make any adjustments when Tony proved to not be inventive enough to work around the bad QB play
-the team at times doesn't appear to be prepared enough, and makes too many mental mistakes

All that said, the Jets have been trying since '06 to build a team around defense and cold northeast weather football.
It's a blueprint that has kept teams like Balt and Pitt competitive every year.
I think that is the right approach, and Rex is a good coach for that blueprint.
Without a stud QB, you better play good D.

So while we continue that QB search, i'd stick with Rex and see if he can grow from average HC (strong D), into a strong HC (with strong D).
Continuity is the way of good franchises.
What potential HC fits the mold better who is available? maybe Cohwer...but no re-tread has ever won a SB with new team.
Stay the course..

you are rather generous in your evaluation of Ryan. There are 3 QB playing in the upcoming playoffs that are better than Sanchez right now, and the Jets could have drafted them if they were actually looking for a QB to help this team win. (Dalton, Wilson and Keapernick were all available when the Jets Drafted in recent years. Ryan was out front praising Sanchez from draft day saying how he wanted him to be the new face of the franchise and how good he was. (based on what evidence?) Ryan consistently over the years praised Sanchez and said he was just fine, he gives us the best chance to win. (of course he does, there is no other option) despite the evidence to the contrary. Now that Sanchez has been revealed as a loser (hopefully that is no longer up for debate), Ryan gets a pass? That is a HC either blowing smoke, or not having the common sense to see what the rest of us clowns with no football pedigree could see from the get go. And if he is blowing smoke, then what is the point? Why not bring in a capable backup QB from the beginning?

[BronxJet]

Originally Posted by akibud

you are rather generous in your evaluation of Ryan. There are 3 QB playing in the upcoming playoffs that are better than Sanchez right now, and the Jets could have drafted them if they were actually looking for a QB to help this team win. (Dalton, Wilson and Keapernick were all available when the Jets Drafted in recent years. Ryan was out front praising Sanchez from draft day saying how he wanted him to be the new face of the franchise and how good he was. (based on what evidence?) Ryan consistently over the years praised Sanchez and said he was just fine, he gives us the best chance to win. (of course he does, there is no other option) despite the evidence to the contrary. Now that Sanchez has been revealed as a loser (hopefully that is no longer up for debate), Ryan gets a pass? That is a HC either blowing smoke, or not having the common sense to see what the rest of us clowns with no football pedigree could see from the get go. And if he is blowing smoke, then what is the point? Why not bring in a capable backup QB from the beginning?

Have you ever taken a management or leadership class? There's something known as a self fulfilling prophesy in psychology that has been proven time and time again. Rex Ryan's treatment of his players in the media follows this principle, which is considered a best practice in management.

The old school tearing a player a new asshole is not effective. There's research backing this up.

psychologytoday. com/articles/200504/self-fulfilling-prophecies

[akibud]

Originally Posted by BronxJet

Have you ever taken a management or leadership class? There's something known as a self fulfilling prophesy in psychology that has been proven time and time again. Rex Ryan's treatment of his players in the media follows this principle, which is considered a best practice in management.

The old school tearing a player a new asshole is not effective. There's research backing this up.

psychologytoday. com/articles/200504/self-fulfilling-prophecies

thanks for the heads up on the psychology update. I'm guessing the method will finally soak through with Sanchez by next season and he will be amazingly awesome! because the HC says he is.

[BacktoQueens]

Originally Posted by akibud

you are rather generous in your evaluation of Ryan. There are 3 QB playing in the upcoming playoffs that are better than Sanchez right now, and the Jets could have drafted them if they were actually looking for a QB to help this team win. (Dalton, Wilson and Keapernick were all available when the Jets Drafted in recent years. Ryan was out front praising Sanchez from draft day saying how he wanted him to be the new face of the franchise and how good he was. (based on what evidence?) Ryan consistently over the years praised Sanchez and said he was just fine, he gives us the best chance to win. (of course he does, there is no other option) despite the evidence to the contrary. Now that Sanchez has been revealed as a loser (hopefully that is no longer up for debate), Ryan gets a pass? That is a HC either blowing smoke, or not having the common sense to see what the rest of us clowns with no football pedigree could see from the get go. And if he is blowing smoke, then what is the point? Why not bring in a capable backup QB from the beginning?

My assessment was same as yours. Avg HC, great DC.
I even added valid criticisms of Ryan, so how was i being generous?

And dude, your whole argument in this quote is about what Rex says in pressers? who the fuck cares? of course a coach is going to back his player and try to bolster his confidence. it means nothing.
I don't think Rex was the one extending Sanchez contract and guaranteeing money to a cooked QB. This is why the GM is fired.

[BronxJet]

Originally Posted by akibud

thanks for the heads up on the psychology update. I'm guessing the method will finally soak through with Sanchez by next season and he will be amazingly awesome! because the HC says he is.

Its not that it makes shitty players magically awesome, it's that it allows Rex to get the most out of them.

Maybe that's why in his career Rex has gotten the most out of some subpar guys that go on to suck in other teams.

[akibud]

Originally Posted by BacktoQueens

My assessment was same as yours. Avg HC, great DC.
I even added valid criticisms of Ryan, so how was i being generous?

And dude, your whole argument in this quote is about what Rex says in pressers? who the fuck cares? of course a coach is going to back his player and try to bolster his confidence. it means nothing.
I don't think Rex was the one extending Sanchez contract and guaranteeing money to a cooked QB. This is why the GM is fired.

I was thinking of someone elses post when I wrote that, sorry....

...But I do believe that Rex was consulted on whether or not the team should draft Sanchez, and he agreed. I also believe that Ryan was consulted about extending Sanchez before the deal was offered. If the HC doesn't think the QB is good enough, why extend his deal? Both the GM and the HC were on board with extending Sanchez. I might even go further and say it is because the HC wanted to placate Sanchez that the GM extended his deal.

[BacktoQueens]

Originally Posted by akibud

I was thinking of someone elses post when I wrote that, sorry....

...But I do believe that Rex was consulted on whether or not the team should draft Sanchez, and he agreed. I also believe that Ryan was consulted about extending Sanchez before the deal was offered. If the HC doesn't think the QB is good enough, why extend his deal? Both the GM and the HC were on board with extending Sanchez. I might even go further and say it is because the HC wanted to placate Sanchez that the GM extended his deal.

All speculation. Only we know for sure is it is the GM's job with final say on those decisions.
If you like personell speculation based on no fact or research, you'll prob like Schein's recent article.

[akibud]

Originally Posted by BacktoQueens

All speculation. Only we know for sure is it is the GM's job with final say on those decisions.
If you like personell speculation based on no fact or research, you'll prob like Schein's recent article.

it is only speculation because we have not heard them say it themselves. But, any reasonable person would expect that the HC had to be consulted before giving the QB a raise and guaranteed money. Same goes for drafting him, if the HC does not think he can coach that player to do the things that he wants done, the GM would be an idiot to draft the guy

[Rockinz]

Rex is perfect for the job! In fact the only person better is the Big Tuna and we are not getting him!

[JetsNation06]

I don't mind if he stays and I don't mind if he goes. He's proven to be a decent HC although he completely lost the locker room this year and his in game management was very poor at times this year.

That said I like what he does on the defensive side of the ball. The biggest question I have are his in-game management skills and playcalling. Unless the Jets bring in a guy who is going to run the entire offense then I don't see these areas getting any better under Rex.

[Big Blocker]

Originally Posted by akibud

it is only speculation because we have not heard them say it themselves. But, any reasonable person would expect that the HC had to be consulted before giving the QB a raise and guaranteed money. Same goes for drafting him, if the HC does not think he can coach that player to do the things that he wants done, the GM would be an idiot to draft the guy

the other part of this is, if Ryan had a contrary opinion, and his opinion was given no heed, what good is he as an HC???

A team that makes hugely important roster moves contrary to the input of the HC on a regular basis is either even more poorly run than the Jets seem to be or has a complete idiot for their HC who SHOULD NOT be listened to. In which case why is a complete idiot the HC?

The people defending Ryan here are not making much sense. I have not fully gotten on the Fire Rex bandwagon, but I have yet to come across a compelling defense of him.