[xxedge72x]

Originally Posted by AlToon

Kristian Dyer who covers the Jets for Metro New York was on the NFL Network this morning. He said the Jets are looking for a #1 and #3 for Revis. I hope its more than a #1 and #3 if its a trade to San Francisco,Denver or Atlanta. Those are late round picks.

If Revis walked as a FA then they would get a 3rd round supplementary pick in the draft the next year.

Even though a trade would accelerate that 3rd round pick by two years, the Jets are still making out with only a first round pick out of that deal. I've got to believe he holds more value than that. If I'm another ballclub, I'm jumping on that deal.

Even still, a 1st and a 3rd is better than him just walking, so if thats what it takes then so be it.

[Biggs]

Originally Posted by Zach

Salary cap was instituted for a reason - without the cap, you will see the likes of Yankees equivalent (= teams with big market. Cowboys and both NY teams certainly qualify for that.) swooping the VLT 26 times while the likes of KC Chiefs (or the Bengals and et al.) not even being able to sniff playoff for decades. (And that can happen to history-rich franchises like the Packers. Not a good sign.) Once you allow the teams to spend up to their financial capabilities, the league will suck in general. That's a fact. (Guess why the likes of Man Utd, Real Madrid and Barcelona are always competitive while these bottom-feeders always dip below championship league then rise again, only to dip below ad nauseum.)

On a second thought, watching that stupid franchise in upstate NY wither into oblivion won't be that bad at all.

I believe NFL teams share TV revenue so I don't believe it will be like MLB. The Yankess make substantially more money than the rest of MLB not the case in the NFL at all.

The Jets like many NFL teams are an outright bad product. There were more unwatchable games this year then at any time I can remember. It might be a very good thing to see the league shrink substantially. Regular season viewership was down for the first time in a long time last year. I suspect if we continue to see the kind of play we saw this year by several teams including our own viewership will continue to decline as fans like me want to rip our eyeballs out on the product our team is putting out.

You get rid of 10 teams and we have a much better all around product.

[Zach]

Originally Posted by Biggs

I believe NFL teams share TV revenue so I don't believe it will be like MLB. The Yankess make substantially more money than the rest of MLB not the case in the NFL at all.

The Jets like many NFL teams are an outright bad product. There were more unwatchable games this year then at any time I can remember. It might be a very good thing to see the league shrink substantially. Regular season viewership was down for the first time in a long time last year. I suspect if we continue to see the kind of play we saw this year by several teams including our own viewership will continue to decline as fans like me want to rip our eyeballs out on the product our team is putting out.

You get rid of 10 teams and we have a much better all around product.

The problem with getting rid of the cap is that, the teams have different marketing power. In other words, if the teams share the revenue while there is no cap, that means big market teams will be bleeding for the sake of the small market teams - and without a proper compensation, and without a reasonable limitation (like there is with salary cap.) Jerry Jones and Woody Johnson will scoff at such an idea.

In short, you can't have revenue sharing without the cap. If you want the cap gone, you'd have to get rid of the revenue sharing as well.

Also, getting rid of the teams = substantial decrease in revenue. You'd have to come up with how you can compensate the lost profit.

[LongTimeJetsFan]

Originally Posted by Biggs

I believe NFL teams share TV revenue so I don't believe it will be like MLB. The Yankess make substantially more money than the rest of MLB not the case in the NFL at all.

The Jets like many NFL teams are an outright bad product. There were more unwatchable games this year then at any time I can remember. It might be a very good thing to see the league shrink substantially. Regular season viewership was down for the first time in a long time last year. I suspect if we continue to see the kind of play we saw this year by several teams including our own viewership will continue to decline as fans like me want to rip our eyeballs out on the product our team is putting out.

You get rid of 10 teams and we have a much better all around product.

That's part of the beauty of sports though. You have good teams and bad teams, winners and losers. The good thing about the NFL with the salary cap and now the rookie wage scale is that teams can go from terribly bad to pretty good really quickly and so even when your team stinks the offseason is meaningful.

[AlToon]

Originally Posted by xxedge72x

If Revis walked as a FA then they would get a 3rd round supplementary pick in the draft the next year.

Even though a trade would accelerate that 3rd round pick by two years, the Jets are still making out with only a first round pick out of that deal. I've got to believe he holds more value than that. If I'm another ballclub, I'm jumping on that deal.

Even still, a 1st and a 3rd is better than him just walking, so if thats what it takes then so be it.

The team(say its Atlanta)which acquires Revis and doesn't sign him will give up only a late #1 pick for Revis. They get an all world player to win right now. Arthur Blank would give up some of his Home Depot money for a Super Bowl trophy. Hopefully the Jets can get another asset included if the deal sees a #1 and #3 coming to the Jets from a team in late 20s. If TB steps with a #1 and #3,different story. They have mid round #1. Can the Jets bump up the #3 to a #1 if the acquiring team does re-sign Revis before next March? Or a #2 from #3 if they reach the Super Bowl with Revis playing X% of the snaps?

[Biggs]

Originally Posted by LongTimeJetsFan

That's part of the beauty of sports though. You have good teams and bad teams, winners and losers. The good thing about the NFL with the salary cap and now the rookie wage scale is that teams can go from terribly bad to pretty good really quickly and so even when your team stinks the offseason is meaningful.

I don't agree that competitive balance based on overall mediocrity is a good thing. Less teams would bring up the level of play as more good players are competing for less overall positions. What we have now is a system that rewards teams for balancing wages as oppossed to developing players and continuity.

[Br4dw4y5ux]

There's no way you get rid of 10 teams with the kind of franchise values that are out there. That would take a $10 billion dollar investment from the remaining owners.

[Biggs]

Originally Posted by Br4dw4y5ux

There's no way you get rid of 10 teams with the kind of franchise values that are out there. That would take a $10 billion dollar investment from the remaining owners.

No doubt that's why they sold them in the first place. My guess is economic factors may come into play down the road that impacts the amount of teams. If they continue to put out a crappy over all product viewership and revenue should go down.

There's a huge difference between playoff fever and 12 bad regular season games and a few unwatchable pre-season games. At some point expanding the playoffs again is simply going to backfire.

The Jets finally developed a HOF player and basically have to unload him for competitive balance issues.

[BeastBeach]

Originally Posted by Biggs

No doubt that's why they sold them in the first place. My guess is economic factors may come into play down the road that impacts the amount of teams. If they continue to put out a crappy over all product viewership and revenue should go down.

There's a huge difference between playoff fever and 12 bad regular season games and a few unwatchable pre-season games. At some point expanding the playoffs again is simply going to backfire.

The Jets finally developed a HOF player and basically have to unload him for competitive balance issues.

That isn't true at all. They have to unload him because of poor talent acquisition and bad contracts in other areas that are so glaring that a HOF CB and other good players can't possibly overcome them. Plenty of teams are able to hang onto top tier/HOF type players. Demarcus Ware will be a HOFer one day and the Cowboys wouldn't dream of letting him go because they didn't force their own hand by crippling the cap on marginal players. The fact that some teams can't do so is not a reflection of the system, but on that particular team

Plus the compensatory picks help balance the scales when teams DO have to let talented guys walk away. But they are never forced to let go of their best guy because of the way the league is set up.

[Biggs]

Originally Posted by BeastBeach

That isn't true at all. They have to unload him because of poor talent acquisition and bad contracts in other areas that are so glaring that a HOF CB and other good players can't possibly overcome them. Plenty of teams are able to hang onto top tier/HOF type players. Demarcus Ware will be a HOFer one day and the Cowboys wouldn't dream of letting him go because they didn't force their own hand by crippling the cap on marginal players. The fact that some teams can't do so is not a reflection of the system, but on that particular team

Plus the compensatory picks help balance the scales when teams DO have to let talented guys walk away. But they are never forced to let go of their best guy because of the way the league is set up.

Did you miss the lockout and the recent solution that was impossed? You're wrong most teams are forced to make exactly these kind of purges at some point and the band aid was impossing a rookie pay scale.

[LongTimeJetsFan]

Originally Posted by Biggs

Did you miss the lockout and the recent solution that was impossed? You're wrong most teams are forced to make exactly these kind of purges at some point and the band aid was impossing a rookie pay scale.

How is the rookie pay scale a band-aid? It allows teams to spend more of the cap on proven players rather than paying rookies like top 5 at their position prior to playing a down.

The Jets are in a bad cap position because they gave out bad contracts to players who were on the downside of their career or who had not earned them. The league isn't nor should it be responsible for teams making poor financial decisions.

[BeastBeach]

Originally Posted by Biggs

Did you miss the lockout and the recent solution that was impossed? You're wrong most teams are forced to make exactly these kind of purges at some point and the band aid was impossing a rookie pay scale.

As I said, all teams lose good players at some point. But the compensatory picks help to make up for that and "competitive balance issues" certainly can never force you to get rid of one particular player if the cap is managed properly. There is absolutely no reason you guys couldn't keep Revis if bad contracts hadn't been given to low impact players.

[Biggs]

Originally Posted by BeastBeach

As I said, all teams lose good players at some point. But the compensatory picks help to make up for that and "competitive balance issues" certainly can never force you to get rid of one particular player if the cap is managed properly. There is absolutely no reason you guys couldn't keep Revis if bad contracts hadn't been given to low impact players.

We can keep Revis what the hell is your point? What is a properly managed cap? If you suck and are rebuilding or you're a good team that has lots of highly drafted players ready to enter second and third contracts cap management isn't going to change the facts. Teams that have developed lots of good players are going to have to unload lots of good players.

[BeastBeach]

Originally Posted by Biggs

We can keep Revis what the hell is your point? What is a properly managed cap? If you suck and are rebuilding or you're a good team that has lots of highly drafted players ready to enter second and third contracts cap management isn't going to change the facts. Teams that have developed lots of good players are going to have to unload lots of good players.

Sure but that wasn't what we were talking about.

You are the one who stated that you were being forced to unload a HOF player due to league competitive balance issues. That is false

Obviously if you draft good players you have to let them go but you get picks in return and since good teams get most of their good players from picks there is no reason why teams with a good FO can't have sustained success.

[Biggs]

Originally Posted by BeastBeach

Sure but that wasn't what we were talking about.

You are the one who stated that you were being forced to unload a HOF player due to league competitive balance issues. That is false

Obviously if you draft good players you have to let them go but you get picks in return and since good teams get most of their good players from picks there is no reason why teams with a good FO can't have sustained success.

No doubt but that comes with a price continuity and with a team based on 53 players that lack of continuity hurts the overall play. They are competitive at a lower overall level than they would be if you could hold on to your best players and develop new players.

Competitive balance looks like grading students on a curve. Many teams get good marks while putting a poor product on the field.

[ajax]

Originally Posted by Biggs

No doubt but that comes with a price continuity and with a team based on 53 players that lack of continuity hurts the overall play. They are competitive at a lower overall level than they would be if you could hold on to your best players and develop new players.

Competitive balance looks like grading students on a curve. Many teams get good marks while putting a poor product on the field.

Sounds to me like you've built your entire logic out of the bitterness that Revis is walking out on the Jets. I'm finding the NFL after salary cap & rookie pay scale much more enjoyable.

Are you longing for the old days where a team drafts a player and he's stuck with his team for his entire career?

[BeastBeach]

Originally Posted by Biggs

No doubt but that comes with a price continuity and with a team based on 53 players that lack of continuity hurts the overall play. They are competitive at a lower overall level than they would be if you could hold on to your best players and develop new players.

Competitive balance looks like grading students on a curve. Many teams get good marks while putting a poor product on the field.

I get where you are coming from but the alternative is the NBA where there are 4 or 5 teams winning the titles for the past 20 years. I think the NFL is the best balance of competitiveness and fairness despite some flaws.

[cval]

It all comes down if you like parity or not. The cap sole purpose is for the teams to all be similar. The days of hording players or having a team stacked full of Hall of Famers are long gone.

Compound that with the changing of the rules and you get what you get a mediocre football that relies to much on the QB.

The rules have changed so much the read option is now successful in the NFL.

What it boils down to in the NFL is Windows the Jets went all in in 2010 and just missed. We are now starting over and with some good moves can be competing for a playoff spot in 2014. Bad moves we become the Dolphins and the Bills.

[Biggs]

Originally Posted by BeastBeach

I get where you are coming from but the alternative is the NBA where there are 4 or 5 teams winning the titles for the past 20 years. I think the NFL is the best balance of competitiveness and fairness despite some flaws.

If the NBA dropped half their teams you could have teams with 4 really good players instead of 2.

[Br4dw4y5ux]

Teams can still have great rosters but the only way to do that is to draft well. That way you have a bunch of players on the roster on their first contract that are really good to star-quality. Things break down on the second contract because that's where good to great players suddenly have the upper hand and force teams to either let them go or begin compromising their cap position.

There's no way to go for free agents in a big way and still assemble a great roster because by definition you are acquiring players on their second or later contract and you pay more than play value for those players.

The Jets are in trouble with Revis right now because he's headed for his third contract. There's no way they can afford to pay him market value, which will be above play value, and still build a great roster.

Where the Jets went wrong with Revis was in not trading him off of the holdout between his first and second contracts. That's the only time they had a real shot at getting favorable value for him and beginning to build a great roster. At this point they are in damage control mode and the damage is going to be heavy either way.