[laxin]

Originally Posted by Zach

I have seen the page. It makes no sense. The only correct figure on that pic was the cap saving on cuts (around 34.8M.) Jets won't be able to restructure, and they won't trade these bloated contracts. Hell will freeze over before that happens. Now, Jets do not even have established NT on the roster, with Ellis still not quite there yet - so you want to release Pouha? That's brilliant.

On top of that, what incentive do these players have to restructure the contract? Jets will have to cough up more money to get them to restructure or worse yet, guarantee their contracts. Just what makes you think these players will willingly give up the money that is going to come in their way anyway? Will YOU give up your salary for the success of your company? If you won't, why do you think they will?

And since you seem to have a short memory, let me refresh you a little bit. The reason Jets have these stupid contracts NOW is because Tannenbaum restructured their contracts one after another to get the salary figure under the cap. Now, the next GM should follow that trail? And fail? That's, again, brilliant.

Last, but not the least, you know what? Let's just say, Jets DO restructure some of the stupid contracts for immediate cap relief. Do you know what that means? Jets postpone the impending doom. You can't keep restructuring over and over. At some point, you have to pay the piper. So, if you can get that done and over with NOW, why postpone that? To elongate failure? Again, that's brilliant.

Drill this to your head. Jets won't be going 30M under the cap next season. Get that?

This team needs to admit to being in a rebuild stage. Then you try and trade Revis if he doesnt meet a reasonable offer, assuming the offer is good. Finally, you just let these contracts run out. Im sick of all of this "if you restructure these 3 contracts then you save X amount of the cap". We are not in win now mode. Tannenbaum risked it to win big in 2010 and we failed. The contracts are now horrible and no GM wants to deal with it.

No more restructures and guaranteeing money. We can not set ourselves up for failure down the road. Hopefully when we can actually contend with a rebuilt roster.

Like you said, doing that will only postpone the inevitable rebuild. The sooner the organization understands that the sooner they can have success.

[SettlerDawg]

Originally Posted by Br4dw4y5ux

No CB in history has ever made a bad team good. Yes, you absolutely trade your corners for good value when the alternative is to watch them suck up valuable cap space otherwise.

If the Jets are going to go 4-12 next year there's no way that losing the CB's makes that much worse, and we'd actually like it to be much worse.

I agree with trading revis. There's very little room to sign him, and we need the cap space for offensive players, particularly a franchise QB. There's really no point in trying to field a competitive team with our cap situation and QB situation during 2013.

Trade Revis, get good picks in 2014. Trade this year's 1st round pick for a 1st next year. Cut Holmes and Sanchez. Draft 2 project QB's in rounds 2-5 this year (Nassib, Bray, Dysert, Manuel, Barkley to name a few). Let the qb's develop against a tough schedule in 2013, and get a top pick in 2014. Then we have 3 1st round picks in 2014 to trade up for a franchise qb if it looks like the 2 project qb's don't have what it takes. If one of them shows promise, you trade up for Clowney. You'll then have plenty of cap space in 2014, and more contracts coming off the books in 2015. That's the only way to rebuild. The circumstances are almost perfect for the Jets to tank in 2013. Too bad Woody will probably make his new GM trade for Flynn or sign Moore, while restructuring contracts so that our cap situation is even worse in the future, while we lose Revis to free agency for a 3rd round comp pick.

[SettlerDawg]

Originally Posted by laxin

This team needs to admit to being in a rebuild stage. Then you try and trade Revis if he doesnt meet a reasonable offer, assuming the offer is good. Finally, you just let these contracts run out. Im sick of all of this "if you restructure these 3 contracts then you save X amount of the cap". We are not in win now mode. Tannenbaum risked it to win big in 2010 and we failed. The contracts are now horrible and no GM wants to deal with it.

No more restructures and guaranteeing money. We can not set ourselves up for failure down the road. Hopefully when we can actually contend with a rebuilt roster.

Like you said, doing that will only postpone the inevitable rebuild. The sooner the organization understands that the sooner they can have success.

This. We have too much guaranteed $ going to bad players. We have to stop trying to restructure contracts in order to bring in more talent when there's no way we're going to compete for the playoffs. Let the guaranteed contracts of bad players run out. Tank 2013 because the 2014 draft has some insane talent.

[ArmandJ]

Let's not talk about tanking. That's just stupid. All it really takes is one diamond in the rough/franchise quarterback, and we're right in business.

If we can just sign a great QB and a good rookie class, there's no reason why we can't be competitive. Tanking for picks that may or may not work out is institutional failure and something I hope this organization doesn't endorse, public or private.

Seriously, do you want to see the team lose 14 or 15 games next year? It was hard enough watching them lose 10.

[Zach]

Originally Posted by SettlerDawg

This. We have too much guaranteed $ going to bad players. We have to stop trying to restructure contracts in order to bring in more talent when there's no way we're going to compete for the playoffs. Let the guaranteed contracts of bad players run out. Tank 2013 because the 2014 draft has some insane talent.

Another proponent of spike year.

If that means getting rid of that 100M, why the hell not?

(Losing Mangold and Ferguson will hurt though...)

[Br4dw4y5ux]

Originally Posted by Zach

Another proponent of spike year.

If that means getting rid of that 100M, why the hell not?

(Losing Mangold and Ferguson will hurt though...)

Can't really get a benefit out of cutting/trading either Mangold or Ferguson. Both of their cap numbers are well below dead money if cut and similar to dead money if traded. Same in 2014.

In 2015 if the Jets are still having cap issues and Mangold has been hurt/unproductive in the meantime he is an easy cut, like a normal cap hell casualty.

Ferguson approaches cuttable status in 2015 but 2016 is the easy year.

The Jets have already extended their cap issues out a few years. That's one of the arguments for just taking their medicine in 2013 and not making the problem worse.

[Zach]

Originally Posted by Br4dw4y5ux

Can't really get a benefit out of cutting/trading either Mangold or Ferguson. Both of their cap numbers are well below dead money if cut and similar to dead money if traded. Same in 2014.

In 2015 if the Jets are still having cap issues and Mangold has been hurt/unproductive in the meantime he is an easy cut, like a normal cap hell casualty.

Ferguson approaches cuttable status in 2015 but 2016 is the easy year.

The Jets have already extended their cap issues out a few years. That's one of the arguments for just taking their medicine in 2013 and not making the problem worse.

Actually, that is correct regarding Mangold and Ferguson. They will be on the roster, making 10M/yr without a way out for the team. Cutting Ferguson will be a disaster. Cap figure of 10M - and cap hit of 17M. Just who did this abominable contract?

[Don]

Like I said, we have no choice but to bite the bullet this year. Everything gets better when it's over. And if we trade Revis now rather then let him walk after the season the hit is only 3 million more and at least we get something in return.

[gustoonarmy]

I pretty much agree with the OPs sentiments.

I think it boils down to how quickly you want to fix things up, really.
Trading Revis NOW for future picks, this year and next would be going a long way to fixing things. Not ideal, but as the OPs alluded to, what's the point in having a stud in your team when the rest is failing so badly.
Unfortunately before anything remotely like this can be done we have to get a new GM, who for all purposes will be a bit of a puppet answering to Woody and Rex

[Don]

[QUOTE=gustoonarmy;2702382]I pretty much agree with the OPs sentiments.

I think it boils down to how quickly you want to fix things up, really.
Trading Revis NOW for future picks, this year and next would be going a long way to fixing things. Not ideal, but as the OPs alluded to, what's the point in having a stud in your team when the rest is failing so badly.
Unfortunately before anything remotely like this can be done we have to get a new GM, who for all purposes will be a bit of a puppet answering to Woody and Rex[/QUOTE]

We will certainly know that to be the case if they promote Cohen..we will also know that absolutely no one else would take the job.

[gustoonarmy]

[QUOTE=Don;2702387]

Originally Posted by gustoonarmy

I pretty much agree with the OPs sentiments.

I think it boils down to how quickly you want to fix things up, really.
Trading Revis NOW for future picks, this year and next would be going a long way to fixing things. Not ideal, but as the OPs alluded to, what's the point in having a stud in your team when the rest is failing so badly.
Unfortunately before anything remotely like this can be done we have to get a new GM, who for all purposes will be a bit of a puppet answering to Woody and Rex[/QUOTE]

We will certainly know that to be the case if they promote Cohen..we will also know that absolutely no one else would take the job.

Its not looking good is it. I can only assume Tanny is somewhere laughing his back off

[Realistic Jets Fan]

The sky is falling...the sky is falling! !!

[1968jetsfan]

Originally Posted by laxin

This team needs to admit to being in a rebuild stage. Then you try and trade Revis if he doesnt meet a reasonable offer, assuming the offer is good. Finally, you just let these contracts run out. Im sick of all of this "if you restructure these 3 contracts then you save X amount of the cap". We are not in win now mode. Tannenbaum risked it to win big in 2010 and we failed. The contracts are now horrible and no GM wants to deal with it.

No more restructures and guaranteeing money. We can not set ourselves up for failure down the road. Hopefully when we can actually contend with a rebuilt roster.

Like you said, doing that will only postpone the inevitable rebuild. The sooner the organization understands that the sooner they can have success.

I won't say absolutely no more restructuring and guaranteeing more money, but it should only be done for players who are A) playing very well currently and B) expected to play well long term. Currently there are only two players on the roster who qualify under that (who have large contracts) Mangold and Ferguson.

[1968jetsfan]

Originally Posted by ArmandJ

Let's not talk about tanking. That's just stupid. All it really takes is one diamond in the rough/franchise quarterback, and we're right in business.

If we can just sign a great QB and a good rookie class, there's no reason why we can't be competitive. Tanking for picks that may or may not work out is institutional failure and something I hope this organization doesn't endorse, public or private.

Seriously, do you want to see the team lose 14 or 15 games next year? It was hard enough watching them lose 10.

may not have a choice but to watch tehteam lose 12-14 games next season. Great QB's seldom come on the FA market except at the very end of their careers. Guys who've had one or two great games as a backup usually turn out to be average at best, and often worse.

It's not really a matter of choosing to tank for picks, it's a matter of accepting this team is probably really bad and on the downside, you can either wait 2-4 seasons for old players to fall off the wayside, or you ca do a system reboot, eat a lot of contracts in 2013 (which means not having much to work with in 2013, which we don't have anyways) and having a clear cap space in 2014 to actually pursue good players. If the Jets were willing to bite the bullet and play their cards well in 2013 they could have 60-80 million in free cap space in 2014. The one thing you can't predict though is who free agents are.

Look at it this way, if the Jets were to trade Revis, and he didn't resign in 2014 with the team he was traded to the Jets could bid on regaining his services, and have a boatload of money to sign him and other good players.

[Realistic Jets Fan]

Matt Moore

not at the end of his career

inexpensive

no pissed away draft picks in a trade

dying for an opportunity to be a starter

kicked the Jets asses in 2011 at the end of the season as Dolphin starter and again when unfortunately for the Jets, Tannehill was nicked in the game at Met Life in 2012


Make it happen New GM guy

[wildaces]

Originally Posted by laxin

This team needs to admit to being in a rebuild stage. Then you try and trade Revis if he doesnt meet a reasonable offer, assuming the offer is good. Finally, you just let these contracts run out. Im sick of all of this "if you restructure these 3 contracts then you save X amount of the cap". We are not in win now mode. Tannenbaum risked it to win big in 2010 and we failed. The contracts are now horrible and no GM wants to deal with it.

No more restructures and guaranteeing money. We can not set ourselves up for failure down the road. Hopefully when we can actually contend with a rebuilt roster.

Like you said, doing that will only postpone the inevitable rebuild. The sooner the organization understands that the sooner they can have success.

There is a difference between rebuilding and giving up. If there is a viable option to restructure a contract or 2, you do it.

[LongTimeJetsFan]

Originally Posted by wildaces

There is a difference between rebuilding and giving up. If there is a viable option to restructure a contract or 2, you do it.

Trading Revis is not equal to giving up.

[Br4dw4y5ux]

Originally Posted by LongTimeJetsFan

Trading Revis is not equal to giving up.

Trading Revis is moving forward into the next window.

Rex will have to adapt his defense to not having an all-world CB, something that will make it better than it was if he's successful. No more watching Ben Roethlisberger scramble around forever until he finds the open guy. No more watching Peyton Manning use all of his receivers to negate the Jets best player on defense. It'll be Rex time and he has the track record to make that good on defense.

[slimjasi]

I actually think this is a fascinating discussion and one with multiple valid points of view. While I have mixed feelings on this, I probably wouldn't trade Revis. I simply don't believe in trading a player when his value is at its lowest. And despite the plethora of players who have successfully recovered from major reconstructive knee surgery, his value is still lower than it was after last season. You always sell high and buy low. always.

[championjets69]

Originally Posted by Br4dw4y5ux

Trading Revis is moving forward into the next window.

Rex will have to adapt his defense to not having an all-world CB, something that will make it better than it was if he's successful. No more watching Ben Roethlisberger scramble around forever until he finds the open guy. No more watching Peyton Manning use all of his receivers to negate the Jets best player on defense. It'll be Rex time and he has the track record to make that good on defense.

If we ever get a PR then a all world CB is not such a need IMHO